There are no Divisions that are ordaining women. There are some Unions that are (and have done so for many years), but not Divisions.
George Knight thank you for your wisdom, courage, and stamina!! I am sure you are exhausted with all the GC shenanigans! It is appalling that people leading a church that claims to model Jesus are behaving so unprofessionally and seem to lack compassion. I am sure Jesus weeps for all the excluded groups in our denomination. God bless all the women who despite being poorly treated are obeying the Holy Spirit and serving others! May their tribe only increase! Sad! Shame on the GC!
Hello. From the other side. We who apparently have no voice. No vote. Whose consciences seem not to matter to you. There’s such a difference between us. And a million miles. But we are watching. You may not sense it right now. But if you turn this church into a penal colony, you can be assured you will feel it soon enough. So if you are listening tonight, consider this: Wilson’s shameless grasp for power and control has been laid bare. Seemingly, he will stop at nothing, all the while pretending that it’s the Spirit of God in control. But you can stop him. You who have voice and vote can turn back this tide before it’s too late. Tomorrow is your one chance. If you fail, this church will bear the consequences. And there will be consequences—beyond those you can even imagine. Do the right thing. Give this global body the flexibility needed to reach its mission. Or watch your young people melt away. Watch your tithe dollars shrink. And risk irreparable damage to the church you love. Hello. From the other side. This is your last call.
I have not heard of any conservatives threatening to split the church or leave.
But apparently many think that this is how the liberal unions & conferences will react to any discipline / punishment by the GC.
Thank you, George, for this update. The tactics employed by the GC leadership in recent years give growing evidence that we are fast squandering the moral capital that we may have enjoyed as a Church. The path the GC is on is likely to leave the denomination morally and spiritually bankrupt. Let us hope that there are enough people of courage and principle who care enough about the SDA Church to stand up to the GC’s abuse and misuse of authority.
Why do we have a GC president, when Ellen White revealed it was not God’s plan, I would go as far to say, remove all presidents from each of our churches structure. If we really understand and hold in high esteem her writing, then why have we not adhered to this instruction. Why attack something which is not prohibited, when permitting that which is prohibited.
When one grows up in a country, which categorise people, we called it apartheid, and see that tje caste system only destroys the image of God, because the National Party were Christian, and that caused so many people to not believe in God, so if the GC wants to destroy God’s image, I will not stand still.
taking away the voice and vote of a union president from annual council is tantamount to saying to his union: elect a new president, if you want your voice to be heard at annual council…essentially the entire union is being forced to pay the price for non-compliance…this is probably as close to dismantling a union and replacing its leadership as TW can legally maneuver…
of course a non-compliant union presumably can choose to forego this humiliation by doing a brexit, given that its assets are its own, and not the GC’s…and perhaps this is TW’s real plan: getting rid of non-compliant unions without dragging the church through costly litigation…if i were the president of a non-compliant union, i wouldn’t budge…there are ways to get one’s message across without speaking through annual council…
i think we are going to see real tempers flare up tomorrow…gone will be any veneer of the “sweet spirit” TW called for on friday…of course it’s remarkable TW could even utter the words, knowing what he would be inflicting on monday, and how he mustered the votes to inflict it…
but in any event, tomorrow is thxgiving up here in canada…there will be no need to work, which means i plan to watch as much live streaming as i can…i doubt i’ll be bored…
“My point is, however, that churches do promote beliefs that would more appropriately find a place in a context of intellectual debate. They wind up cheerleading for highly dubious opinions on historical, scientific, and metaphysical matters, simply on the bases of emotional preference and the inertia of tradition. They demand conformity to these beliefs, and if you cannot swim with the current, then, well partner, maybe you’d be happier in another pool, another lake in fact, the one ablaze with burning sulfur.”
― Robert M. Price
It is disconcerting to note the tactics implemented and behaviors shown by our highly esteemed GC president are consistent with what I see in fathers with dysfunctional families and from court referrals seeking psychiatric evaluation for persons in trouble with the law.
If my hunch were correct, the prognosis of our beloved church is grim and guarded should there be no one of moral certitude among the remaining GC officers to stand up to TW. May God be with us as we endure the uncertainties of Monday.
Marcus, there is another name for such rebels. They are called “Protestants.”
Or maybe they should protest by taking the knee, as the football players are doing.
This goes far beyond just sad. I have hesitated to publish widely an article that shows conclusively and without reasonable doubt how very wrong Ted Wilson is in this. The title of the article, “Respect is Mandatory from The Law.”
Maybe just a tiny bit wrong? No. NO. Egregious, ongoing, unchecked violations of God’s Law. You ask which one. I can show it is true of every expression The Law has ever had.
I have no doubt this article of Ted’s insanity is correct. Now, without hesitation or pause. All will know. Hiding behind some vote taken? Really? Straight up. Blasphemy. God’s character is NOT UP FOR VOTE.
It is important to note that Ted Wilson had to go OUTSIDE of GC Working Policy to try to achieve his ends. Working Policy called for a division to bring concerns about any of its unions to the GC. Since the NAD wouldn’t do that Ted had to find a way around the Working Policy. As Loren Seibold has noted, “So we have a case of blatant noncompliance with the Working Policy to punish noncompliance.” So let’s not hear any more claims that Ted Wilson is merely following policy! He’s doing everything he can to accomplish his ends whatever it takes! And to claim San Antonio was a democratic process is laughable in the extreme. Again it was a tightly manipulated process by Ted Wilson to achieve his aims which are at odds with Fundamental Belief #14!
Teddy Taliban won’t be able to sign the oath because he is not willing to work by both the spirit of the working policy and the letter of it. If he does sign it he’s a blatant liar and needs to be investigated.
He most certainly is sounding more and more less like the Jesus I have read about in the Gospels. I know where Jesus would speak and act in relationship to the dominant religious organisation and it’s leaders.
Let’s hope these rumours truly are just that. If not, spare us.
“Father forgive them, for they know just what they do.” - David Kossof
There is a reason Knight is saying all this. It is to have all bases covered for court:
From what I’ve heard, at least 80 % of the Unions worldwide are unable to follow GC working policy entirely. I would have liked to believe that this motion is made as a clever way out. “They who are without sin”… etc. All “sins” being equal, this might silence the call to disciplinary measures and put everything in perspective. But I am quite certain, this is not how it will work out. To the proposed investigative inquisition-unit, WO will be the one unpardonable sin. Whatever the hoped for outcome, this is a maneuver that erodes trust in every direction. A sad day for our church.
I dont know George. I never thot I would see and hear such things as have already happened. I am glad my parents and grandparents did not live to see this day.
Yes, I believe this is the crux. If absentee votes were to be counted, they should have been collected as part of the original vote rather than an afterthought addition purposed to change the initial outcome of the vote. This is common practice in any rule of order. What a sad state of administrative affairs.
May as well wave good by to most of the youth/young adults now…this is the sort of thing that makes people want to give up on any specific denomination. You don’t need religion to find Jesus and HE surely doesn’t need it to find YOU or ME. I’m about done with all this mess. It’s ridiculous! I have a 5 and 9 year old that are coming up in this church family, and I do not like what I am reading. Thanks so much to the people who are standing firm in the GOSPEL message>(my church Pastors Jerry Arnold and Tom Hayes) I praise GOD that I have a church and family to go to that understands what the Bible/the Gospel is ALL about and they support a unity that is BIBLE based/JESUS based. There may need to be some sort of division (and I hate to say that) in order for any semblance of good to come out of this whole mess.
Bureaucracy can function redemptively, and should. But here we are dealing with sheer manipulation and sheer obliviousness to Christian conscience. (Keep in mind: No community of Adventists is trying to FORCE gender equality on any other; but some are trying to FORCE gender inequality on those who embrace it.)
This may turn out to be a dark day indeed. Or courageous participants in the meeting may stand up for the kind of Protestant faithfulness that Martin Luther pioneered and the papacy resisted.