All we know, George, is that Jesus gave her the power to live without sinning, just as He does for all who come to Him. What she did with that power in the years that followed, we aren’t told. The question is, What will you and I do with that power today?
Of course he did. You just said so yourself. Paul condemned any other gospel in which the following were preached:
- favoured nation status
- prejudice
- religious/ethnic division
- exclusivity
Paul used that list (supposedly – since it was devised by you just recently) to differentiate his gospel from that gospel, his Christianity from that Christianity. The SDA denomination has its own list called 28 Fundamental Beliefs, the RCC has its own called the 7 Sacraments, etc. etc.
All the GC President did was issue a pastoral letter for the benefit of all, reaffirming the denomination’s doctrines and applying its “list” to initiatives that purport to be SDA. It helps. especially when characters like the late David Koresh begin to speak up and entice members.
///
1 Like
That “select few” is the division presidents. Don’t blame everything on Ted Wilson! Praise God for a wonderful official statement on what we as a church believe!
1 Like
Exactly. Reading the points to which the author/authors takes offence I find they are not outlined to replace the Fundamental beliefs, not stated, nor intended to. They are given to address the rampart departure - so many from all levels of the church are indulging in - from their sworn allegiance to specific points of the Scriptural principles that are to be found in the Fundamental doctrinal statement.
For example, with just a cursory glance, we find that these fundamental belief (FB) points are implied in the seven point question.
Question 1. FB # 1,2,3,4
Question 2. FB # 2,3,5,6,7,9,11,13,15,16,20,21,22
Question 3. FB # 8,10,11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,24
Question 4. FB # 4,8,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,22,24,25,27
Question 5. FB # 4,5,6,7,20,28
Question 6. FB # 1,8,13,20,24,27,28
Question 7. FB # 6,7,10,11,13,14,17,22,23
1 Like
Those who agree with you are blind, dwelling in deep darkness; because that is so terribly far removed from the truth as the heavens are above a crawling ant in a hole. When God brought the children of Israel out of Egypt, He spoke to them saying, “These are the rules …”
But maybe you think that God is “a weak man”. It is truly mind-boggling what some think of God.
That is why parents tell children the rules of the home. It makes it easy for the children to live a happy life. And like a child, when you’re driving, you too follow the rules (but of the road) without question, which is imperative given the speed with which you are going, and those rules free you to think about other more important matters.
Life and the interaction with other human beings in formal and informal organizations are so complex that to dismiss everything but love would result in chaos. Rather, those things, rules and guides and so forth, that are built upon the principle of love should be welcomed.
///
1 Like
Professor Kent in his own words:
FYI
James Peterson
///
Well stated. Those who insist that this declaration by our leaders is some sort of restrictive “creed” would likely say the same about the 28 Fundamental Beliefs themselves, of which this GC statement merely seeks to remind certain ones among us.
2 Likes
Kevin, I would be very interested in knowing what YOU did “with that power TODAY.” As you said, "the power to live without sinning."
But I am not sure you will actually tell us…
(CAPS for emphasis only).
2 Likes
I agree with your remarks, Robin, about the cruelty we impose on those born with LGBQT+ tendencies when we insist God demands abstinence from physical intimacy. However, I disagree with your statement that God “programs these genetic traits in this marginalized minority.”
I argue that God programmed our genetic machinery to change–to adapt–to an environment which included death after the fall. Along with the remarkable adaptations in the animal world that have evolved in response to changing environments and the struggle for survival, we also see changes to reproductive machinery and associated tactics. These changes have accumulated in humans just as they have accumulated in animals.
1 Like
That’s neither brutal, cruel, a devastating loss nor lifelong loneliness. Sorry.
Jesus Christ was celibate all his lfie, loved much but was rejected and died a humiliating death. Now THAT was brutal, cruel, a devastating loss and lifelong LONELINESS. And therefore, I urge you to cling to him in your time of dispair when you feel misunderstood, rejected or lost.
“We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need .…”
Heb. 4:15-16
///
1 Like
Kevin, from a mental health perspective, when someone presents to us seeking moral directions, we assess two factors, their cognitive functions (common sense) and empathy. Religion has a paradoxical effect on both common sense and empathy and may be used to muddle morality.
4 Likes
I agree with EGW, Jeremy, that hereditary tendencies to evil must be resisted. I’m not excusing sin when we follow our biological tendencies. What I’m saying is that we should allow God to identify sin when it is the brain that processes information and commits sin. Who is guilty of breaking the Sabbath when one is unaware of the Sabbath truth? What child is guilty of theft or deceit when they do not understand the wrongness of their behavior? Sin is an act committed by the conscious mind.
So if the construct of gender, gender identity, and gender preference is in the mind (that only God can see) rather than in the lower body (which is all that we can really see), then I think we should allow God to decide, based on one’s brain rather than whether they have a penis, what is sin.
The Bible has a few condemnatory passages about same-sex behavior (though FAR LESS than what it says about heterosexual behavior). What the Bible is silent about is whether the condemnation applies to heterosexuals who engage in homosexual behavior, or to homosexuals who are born with a brain that developed in utero with a mismatched attraction.
2 Likes
That is a thoughtful, well-argued excuse for sinning. Now why don’t anybody understand a desire for goats?
Exod. 22:19; Lev. 20:15
When people go insane, psychiatrists go into overdrive to help them adjust to the real world. When people begin believing in the flying spaghetti monster that kills, the church goes into overdrive to persuade them that God is real, true and caring. When adolescent sexual desires begin troubling the minds of teenagers, the state goes into overdrive to channel their energies into sports and recreation. When men are losing their sexual potency, the miracle of the blue pill helps them recover.
I wonder what medical solution is there for homosexual orientation. Is anybody even trying for a solution? Maybe the explanation is elusive and that is where present research is directed.
///
i agree that original sin, on its face, is cruel and unjust, which is why so many egw and bible-believing adventists reject it…but railing against the quagmire all of us are hopelessly steeped in, and lifting texts out of their context in order to circumvent the horror of what they teach, is not the answer…it is by accepting and working within the foundational truth boundaries of original sin in an intelligent, constructive way, according to the methods outlined in inspiration, that we achieve victory and joy in the end…
the truth is that none of us can save ourselves…all of us need the life-line that the imputed gift of jesus’ perfection brings…i find the realization that the gift of jesus is much more than his death, but his continuing life, a wonderful strength…the knowledge that my tainted sanctification, which i cannot avoid, is something that jesus is responding to by covering me with his perfection every moment of every day is unbelievably freeing and exhilarating…i truly feel that i can do all things through christ and that nothing can separate me from his love because it is a guaranteed thing that everything i try to do will certainly have his stamp of perfection on it…rather than my justification being an impersonal, forensic thing accomplished in the distant past at the crucifixion, or at my conversion, whenever that was, i see it being carved out as i strive, as i learn, as i try new ways and methods, as i improve my efficiency, in the here and now…whatever level of sanctification i’m privileged to attain, it doesn’t affect the perfection that i have through justification in the least, right now…
ongoing justification consumes completely the ongoing legacy of original sin we received at birth, through no choice of our own, which in my case, includes my sexual orientation…i can honestly say i don’t miss anything having to do with that orientation…i don’t feel i’m being deprived as i continue in my decision to walk away from it…at this point, i don’t even feel, at all, what i felt in my 20’s and 30’s…it’s all gone…i walk into gay centres, including bathhouses, all the time now, and i can see and remember what i felt before, but there isn’t even the faintest pull for me away from what i’ve developed in christ…i feel his spirit in me, around me, through me, lifting me entirely above what i was born into…i can sense that that lift is powerful, and that it can never be exhausted…
so yes, original sin is cruel and unfair…but ongoing justification, once the connection to it is secured, completely unravels its grip…the ongoing priesthood of christ in heaven’s sanctuary, which is adapted perfectly to my ongoing reality on this earth, in this world, is more than enough for me to feel reconciled to anything i was born with…
i give her the credence i do because i can sense and feel the spirit that is working in me in her writings…i’ve read some of her sources quite extensively, and haven’t seen or felt that unmistakable spirit, although i can see similarities in word choices, and sentence structure, in some cases…
for me, egw is much more than “do this, don’t do that”, although i do try to see the principle behind her many admonitions, just as i try to see the principle in so much of moses’ writings (which i understand was borrowed from contemporaries, as well)…in short, for me, egw is a feast of spirit…it’s entering a world of recognition and wisdom that doesn’t exist elsewhere…the bible, of course, has elements of this world in it, and very much power lies in many of its texts…but egw is a domain of spiritual reality that eclipses all…i don’t believe any of the biblical prophets and apostles knew and understood as much as she did, and i don’t get the feeling she wrote out all she knew (she couldn’t find the words, either in her mind or her library, and much of her time was spent in suffering, both mental and physical - and then of course she died, leaving the world without her voice)…once we reunite with christ and god in heaven, she is definitely someone i intend to spend quality time with…
Kevin, it IS the majority of the church that votes in a GC convention and holds the rest in hostage. They seem to not care whether or not it is an issue of conscience or not or even whether there is conclusive biblical evidence.
As far as “standing up for itself”…follow the money, honey. It usually has more sway than anything else.
3 Likes
“Don’t blame everything on Ted Wilson!”
What SHOULD Ted Wilson be held accountable for?
2 Likes
The trouble is, James, the Church did not issue this document as a “pastoral letter,” but as a form of denunciation of The One Project.
Have they ever issued a document like this about any other independent ministry, some of whom teach that women pastors and those who support them are practicing spiritualism (type 2)?
No.
The One Project has somehow rankled the upper decision makers. They just don’t like The One Project. Women pastors have preached at The One Project weekends. That may be enough right there to offend those who are now joining with Aspostate Protestantism in placing women in a subjugated status and claiming that their heretical view of the Trinity is somehow Biblical.
The Holy Trinity is one of the foundational hallmarks of Christian belief. They are abandoning a fundamental belief of our faith.
The One Project is evolving into something that really scares them: congregations uniting to advance Christ and His mission in the world.
It’s time for an emergency summit on the Trinity Crisis that is driving the division in our church. It’s time. This is urgent.
And I suspect that several authors of this document against the One Project are anti-Trinitarians who use this new heresy of apostate evangelicalism (Headship Heresy) to creep into Classic Adventism.
Emergency Summit! We are in a Trinitarian crisis.
2 Likes
Could you explain what you mean here, James?
2 Likes
“Rather, those things, rules and guides and so forth, that are built upon the principle of love should be welcomed.”
If only this were truly the case that it was “built upon the principle of love”.
“That is why parents tell children the rules of the home. It makes it easy for the children to live a happy life.”
Of course, and as the child matures the rules should become lessened because the child is more capable of autonomy. This is not happening currently within Adventism.
5 Likes
The fact that it is even queried is troubling…
5 Likes