“A Declaration of War” — Pastor Geoff Patterson Examines the Unity Document

(George Tichy) #21

Whitewashed, uh?
I guess I got what you mean… LOL

(George Tichy) #22

I just finished reading “Pirates of Privilege,” by Walter Rea, the unpublished book about the Davenport scandal. Fascinating story. It’s bad that Rea could not publish the book or he would lose his pension. Now, only crooks could have forced him into such a deal. They not only lost people’s money (fortunes!) but still forced a kind of cover up.

The book can be downloaded [pdf] for free:

(Joselito Coo) #23

17.29 … what one part of the world decides on this issue [WO] is neither the business nor problem of any other part of the world. Periiod.

I’m for non-discrimination and equal treatment across the board. Please help me understand what I see here. Does this reflect the ethno-cultural composition of Forest Lake SDA Church?
forestlake forestlake1

(George Tichy) #24

I hope the Unions are better prepared than this relaxed guy, because the GC sharks may start the “compliance attack” at any moment…

(George Tichy) #25

For Everyone’s Information:
Loren Seibold @lorenseibold just posted a great, refreshing article on Adventist Today, “KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON,”


(reliquum) #26

@sokingcoo, I pray your comment is not intended to insert a racist insinuation here, and although it is off-off topic, I shall respond…

Bernie Anderson, it seems, is either not pictured, or very recently is pastoring at another church. This church, largest SDA congregation east of the big muddy, is highly diverse.when considered by race. Prior to our receiving this excellent pastor, we had Derek Morris. There have been hispanic pastors of late as well.

(Manuel Fernandez) #27

The time will come when we need to give full support to any SDA leaders who stand-up to GC papacy compliance committee. Our Christian conscious is none-negociable principle. STAND-UP FOR CHRIST! IT CAUSE HIM THE CROSS TO BUY OUR FREEDOM FROM ANY CONTROLLING RELIGIOUS SYSTEM.

(Red Livingstone) #28

Thank you for the link. It was refreshing… until I got to the part where he said, “More ‘Adventist World’ magazines will go into the trash unread.” and I froze. Is there a drone above my rubbish bin? How did he know this?

(Cherry) #29

Where does Christ say we HAD to ordain men?

(George Tichy) #30

You didn’t know that when @lorenseibold became the AT editor his first move was to order full a squadron of drones? :innocent:

(George Tichy) #31

That’s the fallacy of Allen’s @ajshep repeated argument. He keeps writing that the Bible does not command to ordain women. Then, when I asked him several times the question you are asking, he just stayed quiet.

Let’s see how he reacts to your question. Good luck, though…

(Adrian Ghitta) #32

"The old evangelism isn’t working, and no one knows how to attract new members like we used to. The young are becoming scarce: almost any photo of almost any NAD congregation would show mostly gray heads.

In the global south, people are joining the church. The picture of most African or Latin American churches would show lots of young adults and children. Meanwhile, they are continually told the lie, from the very top of the denomination, that we over here are liberal and immoral and don’t believe the doctrines anymore. So you can’t blame them for feeling a bit superior, and a bit stubborn when we ask them to accommodate our cultural needs."

How would you comment regarding the above? Pastor Seinbold stated the facts, but he did not offer an explanation for the background of this reality. Is it a lie that we don’t believe the doctrines anymore? I think that we, indeed, are not believing the doctrines anymore (at least some of them) because we find them wanting. Why would it be wrong to re-examine our doctrines if we value truth in the first place?


I may be 2-faced. (How else would I recognize hypocrisy when I see it ?)
I may be rebellious.
I may be setting up my own standard . . .
I am NOT presuming to lead God’s SDA church as some presume to do.
No, I am leaving it to those who insist on leading it by coercion,
but not me, not again, not this time.

I have quit the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, twice, for the same reason and have lost a great-paying retirement plan as a result. I still have to work while former ‘brothers’ my age are making more staying home than when they were constantly on the move trying to keep working.

Now, should I bless the same kind of arbitrary bullying from untrustworthy SDA leaders --as I found in the IBEW leaders – by submissively following them into the papacy, and ensuring that – having no sufficient retirement income – it will take even longer for Jesus to return for His church, and end all the world’s suffering, either for better or for worse ends, but an end, nonetheless ?

Even a self-serving presumptuous hypocrite like myself has better common sense than that.

(Carlo Schroeder) #34

In Latino American and African churches there are lots of young people, maybe one should consider that these brothers and sisters have more children than the other parts of the world. I was born in Africa and now live I Mexico, so I have a little knowledge on this subject, but also there is a high percentage of young adults leaving the church in these areas, only is it only reported. Everytime one takes a census, it is not published, more members, means more votes.


From Loren Siebold’s AT article:

“That he (Ted Wilson) seems to see his provocations as part of an inevitable “shaking” is probably the most disturbing point of his theology, and disqualifies as a unifier.”

From one of ‘His Prophets’ we are to ‘Believe’, according to the Annual Council slogan from which ‘Belie-’ fell:

“I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God’s people.”
{CET 176.1}

“I saw that the testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance; all who truly receive it will obey it, and be purified.”
{CET 176.2}

The ‘straight testimony’ of the ‘True Witness’ of the ‘Laodicean Message’ both began, and also began being rejected, 130 years ago along with ‘The 1888 Message’ of Christ offering, for free, His own freely-given Faith-full Righteousness as the unfallen, ‘second Adam’ to replace the faithless unrighteousness we all inherited from the fallen, first Adam, "Come buy of me gold tried in the fire (a.k.a. ‘Faith that works’, but ‘through love’, not fear, NOT demonic ‘faith’ that makes one tremble and hide, as Adam did in Eden.). Too many SDA leaders at the time, like Uriah Smith, could not stand the thought that their own righteousness – ‘filthy rags’ and ‘cobwebs’ as Isaiah describes such ‘righteousness’ – means so little to God.

As I’ve noticed among those more modern ‘strong male leaders’ of Adventism who are so threatened by women and ready to discard them ( as Adam once did Eve, and as the SDA GC did Ellen, soon after 1888 ) they often ‘blindly’ choose the very prophetic ideas and Biblical texts to support their own views, which in fact condemn their own views most effectively.

I have seen this phenomenon on the ‘Ordination Truth’ / ‘CAP’ website. I have heard it from the mouth of the former Michigan Conference President that also banned George Knight’s book and the La Sierra choir. And now, apparently, it also comes from the SDA GC President. Who, if he is correct about his role in a ‘shaking’, a ‘sifting’-out, may be considering Himself to be the vicegerent, at least, of Jesus Christ – ‘The True Witness’ of the ‘Laodicean Message’, of which one’s own self-righteousness is the intended target of that ‘shaking’ Ellen, a prophet-to-be-believed-in, saw in the quote given above.

So, who is ‘rising up’ against the ‘straight truth’, and causing the ‘shaking’, still, after 130 years, at least ?

(Elmer Cupino) #36

Other possibilities should be considered with TW particularly given his attachment to provocations in general. He seems to enjoy going from one provocation to the other and it strikes me that there could be a neural basis for his behaviors akin to addictive behaviors. The brain registers all pleasures in the same way, whether they originate with a psychoactive drug, a monetary reward, a sexual encounter, religion or a satisfying meal. In the brain, pleasure has a distinct signature: the release of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the nucleus accumbens, a cluster of nerve cells lying underneath the cerebral cortex. Dopamine release in the nucleus accumbens is so consistently tied with pleasure that neuroscientists refer to the region as the brain’s pleasure center.



10/27/18 - #10

Stanford neuroendocrinologist, Dr. Robert Sapolsky, on social detriment of hierarchy:

(reliquum) #38

@Cassie, your baboon link and the attendant article on hierarchy made me think of Bonobo society and it’s tendency for less hierarchical social structure based on gynecocracy. Higher altruism, sensitivity, empathy, lower aggression, less cliquish shunning, less conflict (and measurable conflict resolution strategies) suggests merit in further study, and perhaps adoption of (some of) their examples


10/27/18 - #12

And, ahem, other things too! :rofl:

(reliquum) #40

Does anyone actually believe God is lacking in a sense of humor!!?

Indeed, the gracile chimps seem to prefer some human proclivities, perhaps they learned it fro the missionaries?