A Statement from the Women Clergy of the Seventh-day Adventist Church


#21

When asked who was to be the greatest, Jesus responded by selecting a child. Whoever becomes as a little child… It seems to me that the innocence, humility of servant leadership is lacking within some people who have been entrusted with positions in governance circles.

A child relies upon adults for guidance and nurture. To be AS a small child in the Christian sense means, partly, to depend fully upon God as Divine Parent, Jesus as Brother and Holy Spirit as Guide, Comforter and Teacher.

May God truly lead in ALL ways at EACH meeting held this month around the globe.


(Frank Peacham) #22

I think the authors of this statement missed a fine opportunity to re-set the entire dialog of WO on a Biblical stance, as they see.

The heart of the matter to those who strongly oppose WO is that it is seen as a liberal effort to deny Biblical authority. This is the headship given to Adam after Eden, affirmed to Aaron and Moses. Paul used this as a model in early church organization. The issue in their mind is faithfulness to Scripture, not culture, not liberal trends and maintaining family order. Some see it in relation to the Great Controversy theme, where Satan left his assigned order and sought to be like God. Some reason no one has authority to alter Scripture to suite modern liberal trends? If the church yields on this point–where and what will be the next liberal trend?


(Steve Mga) #23

Robin –
This is a continuation of my post on “the church we love”.
I mentioned that around the 600 A.D. time period culturally, Men did NOT
want women engaged in formal church activities – acting as Priests.
The MEN came up with an ALTERNATIVE for Bold Women who wanted to engage
in the Spreading of the Gospel.
They encouraged these Bold, “Aggressive” women to dedicate their lives to PRAYER.
So the MEN talked the women into allowing themselves to be LOCKED UP in Castles,
dress in black from head to toe, have no further contact with humans except their
Sister NUNS.
This was the MEN"S ANSWER to How to get these “Bold, Aggressive Women” out of
their hair, so to speak.
Lock them up, to never be heard from again.
A number of centuries later, there were a few women who refused to become Nuns.
Began “preaching” the love of God. But they had to become “WOMEN ON THE MOVE”.
This is because the clerics chased them around Central Europe, wanting to lock them up.
It was life-threatening back in those days for a woman who felt called of God to present
the Gospel in a public way.

Luther’s 95 thesis on the door of Wittenberg, unknown to him at that time, Oct 31, 1517,
was the signal event that unlocked the Nunneries, Released Women who desired to
engage in church work – although still not allowing for full equality (took more centuries
to REALLY allow women to return to their 1st Century Christianity status – 20th Century,
and then only in a limited number of denominations).


(Joselito Coo) #24

Women local conference ministerial directors may be the answer?


(Joselito Coo) #25

Truth be told, our system of governance is not so “unique” after all.:sunglasses: That’s where our problem lies.


https://atoday.org/church-governance-in-times-of-conflict/

Church Governance in Times of Conflict

By Denis Fortin 27 August 2018


#26

…Are there any yet?


(George Tichy) #27

You are being sarcastic, right?


(Johnny Carson) #28

Ahhh, the old slippery slope argument. I’ve always thought it to be an intellectualy lazy one at best.


(George Tichy) #29

This is very true.
Let’s be aware, though, that many of those women have abusive husbands, or had very rude and aggressive fathers, or very abusive fathers (sometimes sexually), or other males who abused them in some way.

Not many of those women are against WO because they concluded it for themselves. Actually, I never met a single one anti-WO woman who said to believe it as result of “their own study of the Bible.” They may be just “agreeing with their lovely husbands.”

Female subservience to males is still very common.


(Steve Mga) #30

George –
As you know from your long history with the SDA church since awareness occurred as
a kid growing up, you know that what REALLY goes on with huge numbers of
members [both Men and Women] is this –
“Someone TOLD me, I believe it, and that settles it for me.”


(Steve Mga) #31

Johnny –
YES!! We have to be CAREFUL!
The NEXT liberal trend will be –
SINNERS will be allowed in the Seventh day Adventist church congregations!!


(George Tichy) #32

Sometimes, actually I should say most often, it’s someone telling others “what EGW said.” but rarely quoting the source or considering any context. EGW is the true “one fits all” for the Church.


(George Tichy) #33

Remember the Church that I will one day start? The front sign will be,

CHURCH FOR SINNERS ONLY

(Saints, please walk down the road to the SDA Church)


(Johnny Carson) #34

Yes. That age old need to be part of the pack, the herd, to be included, to be part of something.


(Kim Green) #35

Certainly wouldn’t hurt if the balance of power was flipped.


(George Tichy) #36

Ask soon-to-be-Justice Kavanaugh about this…
Sadly, it seems that morality, decency, and respect for women don’t have much of a chance after all… Very disturbing!!!


(Steve Mga) #37

George –
At least you DID NOT title your church –
“HOUSE FOR ALL SINNERS AND SAINTS”.
That one has Already been taken by that church in Denver Colorado.
The pastor is Nadia Bolz-Weber.
I think you would enjoy her book – Pastrix.


(Sam Geli) #38

Sad day today. The Kavanaugh legacy and example will become the new template for higher office. The white establishment male has now morphed into a “victim” of strong women. Senator Collins you delivered for President Trump!


(DENNIS HOFER) #39

Actually if one reads Pages 34 and 46 of Patriarchs and Prophets side by side, Ellen – who lived and worked in the male dominated ‘Victorian Age’ but outside of the queen’s dominion and special privileges – describes the relationship and roles of Adam and Eve (as created) in nearly identical terms as the relationship between the Father and Christ.
This cannot be mere ‘coincidence’, since Genesis 1:26-28 states this plural ‘image’ of ‘God’, repeatedly, in several ways.

Even after the ‘fall’, when Eve depended more upon Adam, the ‘Plan of Salvation’ was intended to ‘heal’, to ‘correct’ that dependence, not to perpetuate the imbalance caused by ‘sin’. So, the closer to Christ’s ‘Second Coming’ we get, the less the ‘post-fall model’ should be maintained in preference for the original ‘pre-fall model’.

This means the ‘Second Coming of Christ’ and the emergence of a wide-spread Christian spirit that embraces ‘Women’s Ordination’, also, are naturally ‘coincidental’.


(Robert Lindbeck) #40

@frankpeachamvt, headship was given after the fall of mankind, not before. God’s original plan was that male and female be equal. Cultural differences only came about after the flood (Tower of Babel). This is also reiterated by Paul when he says that there are no distinctions in Christ. Shouldn’t we be aspiring to God’s original plan, not settling for and perpetuating a second class, fallen option?