A Statement from the Women Clergy of the Seventh-day Adventist Church


#101

George,
Your list is one sided with no consideration for the other side. The POTUS was merely pointing out what the media refused to ask. Dr. Ford’s story is so full of holes that no prosecutor would ever take it seriously. And, she is a leftist activist, not a casual witness You should listen to Sen. Collins speech yesterday. Bill Clinton has multiple credible allegations of actual rape that happened after this alleged high school event, so where is the outrage there? The left has lost all credibility and can’t get it back railroading an innocent, good man.


(Frank Peacham) #102

Although I support, along with many others, that spiritual gifts are not gender driven.

I acknowledge that God’s verbal instruction to Moses does not promote female equality with men. Women were burdened with long period of uncleanness for biological reasons. Men were so afraid of even touching a unclean woman they were later separated to seperate quarters in the temple. Birth to female children was a longer period of uncleanness. Priest were 100% males and females when were not able to bring a temple sacrifice without a male accompling them. In essence, in OT practice, except very few unusual exceptions, 99.9% of all women were not permitted to lead in politics or religion. I wonder why God placed this practice in inspired Scripture when our generation sees this as an injustice to womanhood?


#103

To @frankpeachamvt:

This has zero implications or connections with the New Testament Great Commission. The tongues of fire at Pentecost were no respector of persons. They fell on males and females. It was a new time and the role of the Holy Spirit in empowering with spiritual gifts, The Comforter, empowers and gifts whom He will. The Exodus was a different time, place, and purpose.


(ROBIN VANDERMOLEN) #104

Trump did not mock Ford at his rally.
He merely pointed out blatant inconsistencies in her sworn deposition to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

She claimed that she was so traumatized that she had PTSD and claustrophobia so she could not fly in planes, not even to fly from California to the hearing — her lawhers claimed said she had to drive cross country!

Turns out she was in Delaware, visiting her parents and had flown from California to see them,
A prior boyfriend of Ford’s who lived with her for six years says they flew frequently even in small private planes.

She claimed her claustrophobia required two front doors in her home.
Turns out the second door had been installed to allow for a separate rentable apartment!

She claimed that she knew nothing about pokygraphs. Turns out that she had coached friends in the past to take pre employment polygraphs.

These three blatant and deliberate lies place her whole testimony in doubt.

Not to.mention that all her supplied corroborating witnesses refuted her account.

I do hope that Kavanaugh will hire the best DEFAMATION lawyer in the country and sue his false accusers for millions.

I have no doubt he has an extremely strong case.


(Carolyn Wesner) #105

Certainly, he responded as a person who follows the methods of the world, and not the methods of Christ. The same thing happened to Jesus, and His response was… silence in the face of his accusers, and He was led like a lamb to the slaughter. I know there are other times in the biblical record of impassioned defenses (you’re all a bunch of vipers and whited sepulchers…), but High Court positions are not quite the same as being the Savior of the world, where much more is at stake.


(Sam Geli) #106

Now that all branches of the USA government are in the control of so called conservatives let’s see what happens. The lack of respect, fairness, and civility, in this Kavanaugh “crisis” is unfortunate. What is apparent in some of these comments is the sheer blind partisanship that now prevails. “My way or the “highway” is now the governing “rule”. As SDA’s copy in their internal struggles what they see that works in the political realm with strong armed methods, we are about to embark on a more dangerous path.


(ROBIN VANDERMOLEN) #107

Carolyn,

I do sincerely hope that when your son / brother / nephew gets falsely accused of serial drugging and raping of underage teenage girls, an offense imprisonable for multiple decades, that you will be vociferous and vehement in your justified denials.

I sincerely hope that you will not sit “ silent as a lamb,” when your family’s reputation is in tatters, when news media are broadcasting these false accusations world wide 24 / 7.

I trust that your protests will be powerful and impetuous!.

Now that these accusations have been found perilously wanting in supportive facts, I encourage Kavanaugh to hire the best anti defamation lawyer on the planet, and sue these accusers for their false and defamatory testimony!


(Carolyn Wesner) #108

You trust incorrectly. I hope and pray that if and when such things happen to me or mine, the Holy Spirit, my invisible friend, will guide us in the path of Jesus.


(ROBIN VANDERMOLEN) #109

Carlin,
I hope the Holy Spirit will not lead you to betray your family!


(George Tichy) #110

Sure, do not investigate the case thoroughly (deny the testimony of tens of people), go ahead confirming the guy anyway, then make the victim the perpetrator and the perpetrator the victim. Nice indeed.


(Johnny Carson) #111

I can attest from personal experience as a survivor of sexual abuse that victimizing the perpetrator and making the victim the guilty party is nearly always the default position of society, of churches, and of families.


(Kim Green) #112

Some would say it is because Humankind has “evolved” along with their concept of “God”. I would also add that the Bible certainly isn’t the extensive encyclopedia that that some think that it is. It could be that filling in the biblical “gaps” may be done with guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Though I believe that there isn’t any perfect society…as a woman I would much rather live in a society and time where I can conceivably become anything I want and do what I desire. These would be a very foreign concept to females in the Developing Worlds.


(Robert Lindbeck) #113

@Thulas, God created us in His image. He created us equal (male and female). The distinctions between male and female only came after the fall of mankind. Cultural differences came about after the confounding of language. I could add the usual texts about there being no Jew, no Greek, no male, no female etc. I could also add the text about some are called to be teachers, some to be apostles etc.
The point I would like to raise is this - we were created with intellect (a talent). We are encouraged to use it or lose it (grow your talent or it will be taken away). Everybody can, and should have an opinion (exercising our intellect). Our doctrines are the result of our pioneers expressing an opinion, based on their reading of the Bible and guided by the Holy Spirit. Which by the way, unless you are reading the original languages and have a cultural background in ancient Israel and ancient Greece, is also an opinion. Translation is the expression of a person’s opinion of the original intent of the writers words, opinion driven by context and by experience (and the Holy Spirit).
It is not wrong to have an opinion. It is not wrong to express an opinion. We should all feel comfortable to express and defend our opinion. It makes for good, productive and constructive dialogue.


#114

Did you bother to ask yourself why the FBI was precluded from investigating anything about Kavanaugh’s drinking issues, when the entire thing was about something he was alleged to have done while under the influence of alcohol?

Kavanaugh will not sue Ford. You might have noticed that in his strong denials, he never tried to defame her. He was smart enough to know that if he did, then he himself would be in jeopardy. I’m sure he is well aware of what is happening to Trump with the Summer Zervos case. He doesn’t want to find himself in a similar situation.


(George Tichy) #115

There is never an excuse for precluding an investigation. When it happens it is a clear indication that something is being hidden. How can anyone defend the obstruction of a thorough investigation? I don’t get it!
@ezbord


(Connard Rasmussen) #116

If SDA women clergy and like minded believers do not receive fairness from the NAD and GC for their ability to serve, I encourage you to read the Christ and Protestant based Seventh Day Baptist (SDB) Beliefs as listed on the their website seventhdaybaptist.org. There, you will find a congregational system of church structure which allows local congregations to decide about having ordained women pastors. You will also find SDBs believe in "unhindered study and open discussion of Scripture…(and) individual’s freedom of conscience in seeking to determine and obey the will of God. You will find SDBs “believe that Jesus Christ, in His life and teachings as recorded in the Bible, is the supreme interpreter of God’s will for mankind”. You will not find “King of the North” speculation baggage that has hurt SDA witness in the part of the world - sadly speculated about by Uriah Smith. Christ’s Commission to His followers stated in the last three verses of Matt. 28 included “teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you”. Think of how much better the Adventist message and Christian message at large to the world would be if we all just stuck to only the life and teachings of Christ. Then, we could truly be Christians (followers of Christ) and not have the doctrinal debates that have divided Christians, including Adventists. Debates which only confuse the rest of the world and keep us from carrying out Christ’s Commission to the world.


(Frank Peacham) #117

I guess there are two different Gods, one for the OT and a new God for NT. Or maybe God changed his approach to humanity. Maybe Moses just misunderstood God. Reading Moses from a NT perspective–one would almost think so?


(George Tichy) #118

They have a nice church here in Riverside. In fact, I was a member there for four years (1990-1993). The pastor was actually a former SDA pastor at that time.
Great people, good people.


(Connard Rasmussen) #119

Yes. I hope to meet the Riverside SDB pastor Gabe some day. He is still there. His Communion Service today is tagged on Facebook as a video. He recently wrote an article about Seventh Day Sabbath Observance in the SDB Sabbath Review. He was born Catholic, became Adventist, attended Middle East University and Loma Linda University. Freedom in Christ to decide how to observe and celebrate Sabbath, apparently influenced his faith journey. Pastor Gabe cares about helping refugees stuck in camps. Christ declared helping the needy to be His Judgement Day criteria, as recorded in Matt. 25 last part. I don’t find Last Generation Theology teachings when I read the Four Gospels.


(Steve Mga) #120

A number of years ago I met a Sabbath pastor at the Episcopal church I attend.
I discovered he went to the Seventh day Church of God that was only a few miles
from where I lived in Tennessee when I lived there.
He was on disability when I met him here in Macon so had his own income.
He had a small church just outside of Dublin, GA. I attended it a number of times.
Gave them a set of Maxwell Bible Stories [one little girl said excitedly, “I saw them
at the dentist office.”]
He told me names of SDA friends he had in TN. All of them I also knew.
In my visiting and meeting his members, I discovered there are quite a few Saturday
keepers here in Ga. Many of them are itinerate workers and move about with the jobs
available.
An older retired woman – Sabbath keeper – donated the land and buildings for them
to have church and a place for him to live.
I attempted to get the local SDA church in Dublin interested in them, but it was a
dead end in my attempt to interest them.