In this week’s Adventist news round-up:
Adventist Hospitals Subjected to Protests After Requiring COVID-19 Vaccinations for Employees
This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/11383
In this week’s Adventist news round-up:
Adventist Hospitals Subjected to Protests After Requiring COVID-19 Vaccinations for Employees
To Adventist Hospitals in California,
Consider this. If an employee, or any other person, needs to be persuaded, reminded, pressured, lied to, incentivized, coerced, bullied, socially shamed, guilt tripped, punished, threatened, and criminalized to gain compliance, you can be absolutely certain that what is being promoted or required is not in the persons best interest. If the person can still transmit and catch the virus after they have had the vaccine then what is the requirement actually good for?
Some people feel the personal choices of others are selfish and need to be regulated. What’s really selfish is expecting others to surrender their liberties so you (the hospital administration) can enjoy a false sense of security and obedience.
Well, besides the compelling science behind vaccinations which I have carefully read, I have a friend who died from receiving Covid-Delta from unvaccinated co-workers AFTER he was vaccinated prior to Delta. Yes, he was compromised by other conditions, so more vulnerable than many. The data is clear: the vast majority of the vaccinated, even if Delta strikes them, do not need hospitalization or the ICU. Argue with the data. This man’s wife, vaccinated with him the first time, also caught Covid-Delta had minor symptoms and is fine. There is an argument to be made about personal freedom for individuals; there is no argument to be made for personal freedom to endanger others. That is why smoking is no longer permitted in public spaces, drinking unreasonably no longer permitted when driving a car, and ad infinitum.
Ain’t nobody being forced at gunpoint to work at Loma Linda Hospital. I had to quit a job because they were trying to force Saturdays on me. I stood up for what I believed in. If they aren’t willing to do the same, that’s their own problem.
“Vaccinations” does not apply to each disease or illness. Putting faith in EACH vaccination is an individual step. They cannot be lumped into an all or none safety category. The current vaccines might not have been your friends miraculous savior and he still may have died. Many have survived with no vaccine and are now claimed by studies to have 13 times better immunity against the Covid virus than those that are vaccinated. I will guess that your friend did not have a regimen of Vitamin C, D, Zinc and was not treated with Ivermectin that is proven to be safe for humans and animals when prescribed by a physician for humans.
Smoking is not a comparison with a virus. I will guess that you are not aware of the thousands that have been permanently disabled or been killed by the vaccination. More have died from this vaccine than any other vaccine in 31 years. I am going to guess that you did not know the following facts from…
Karen Kingston, a former Pfizer employee and current analyst for the pharmaceutical and medical device industries, who came forward with indisputable documentation as a whistleblower.
Karen Kingston has put “fact checkers” to shame with their attempts to disqualify her.
If your trust in the vaccine is so great then you should be safe. Anyone not taking the vaccine should not affect you then. So what’s the worry?
I find it interesting that as we grew up most of us were raised to not be peer pressured into taking experimental drugs and now we’re all being peer pressured into taking experimental drugs.
In your first paragraph, I would enjoy seeing references to the data you are citing. Second paragraph: “Thousands permanently disabled?” Very possible, but I’d like to see the data, the facts.
Karen Kingston? Utterly discredited: See
I really don’t have any interest in debating you. I do trust the CDC, the FDA, and the epidemiologists who daily testify before thousands and millions on the news on each detail of the pandemic, the vaccines, the statistics for those who refuse vaccination compared to those who have it.
transmission and catching are lower with the vaccine…
it’s not a question of absolute protection vs. no protection…it’s a question of the better protection vs. no protection…it’s also a question of the best protection we have right now vs. no protection…
these studies are flawed…they’re comparing healthy people who’ve recovered from pre-delta infections with sickly vaccinated people dealing with delta…
the people who recover from covid are generally always going to be strong and healthy…the people to compare them to need to be strong, healthy vaccinated people who become infected and shake it off, without symptoms…but these kinds of studies are hard to set up in numbers that are meaningful…it’s hard to find people with covid who have no hint of symptoms…
thx for the laugh…the reality we’re seeing all over the world is that after billions of vaccine shots, hospitals and ICU’s are not plugging up with people suffering from vaccine side effects…they’re plugging up from unvaccinated people who are dying of covid…this really and truly is what governments and businesses are looking at, and why there’s such momentum for mandates…
Choose your control group in this public experiment. I have provided excellent information, but there is much, much more than this piece. Our freedoms let us choose. Our freedoms let us research. Our freedoms let us trust or question our government, after all they are only people, regardless of their position.
i was actually laughing because your post sounded so hysterical…it just struck me as being so over the top…
to me, the bottom line with this whole question, that positively nothing contradicts or can dispute, is that hospitals are being overrun with covid cases from amongst the unvaccinated…hospitals are not being overrun from people who are dying from the vaccines…
if even half of your data had any real time meaning, we should see a shift in this result…that is, if half of hospitalizations and ICU admissions from covid had to do with vaccine side effects, what you’re saying would give reasonable people reasonable pause…the other fact to consider is that in some jurisdictions in n. america, for instance Canada’s Vancouver, 90% of people are vaccinated…so if half of hospitalizations and ICU admissions from covid were coming from breakthrough infections, what you’re saying would have some traction…
at some point, we do have to look at the real world data in real time that is now clearly established for the 5.4 billion covid vaccine doses that have been given worldwide…we do have to take in actual facts that we’re seeing with our own eyes, and allow ideology to give way to that reality…otherwise our lives become a mistake, and everything we say, even when unconnected to covid, starts losing credibility…
the thing to remember is that our church is asking people to accept many things by faith…things like earth origins, the sanctity of the 7th-day sabbath, the resurrection of christ, IJ and the 2nd coming are all grounded in faith…but when people see large groups of conservative adventists essentially dismissing reality that clearly exists on the ground, a reality that doesn’t depend on premises or interpretations, but that positively everyone can see for themselves, our faith gets mired in false witness and conspiracy…to suggest as you do, for instance, that 80% of people taking the vaccines are going to die within 24hrs, with the remainder dying in a few days, when nothing of the kind is even remotely happening anywhere, at all, on earth, is, frankly, false witness…
you’re involved, now, in bearing false witness to the world…
there is the other aspect of the sheer selfishness of the notion that people have the right to plug up our hospital systems and infect children in society, who cannot be vaccinated (the infection of children by the unvaccinated is now a proven fact, discussed just this morning on CNN)…it would be one thing - it would diminish the aspect of selfishness somewhat - if anti-vaxxers conscientiously stayed out of hospitals, and away from the medical profession which they’re so ruthlessly beating up on…but that’s not what’s happening…anti-vaxxers are rushing to the hospitals as soon as they see that their hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin don’t work…
this combination of false witness and selfishness isn’t a winning combination…
the sad irony here is that america’s democracy was facilitated by mandated vaccines (Washington mandated the smallpox vaccine for his troops during the Revolutionary War), and people are now screaming for their right to use that democracy to fight the vaccines, plug up our hospital systems and infect others…how long should society put up with this gross perversion of personal freedoms…
Fear and conspiricy theories must not determine health and safety procedures. All health workers, being in the business of healing the sick, have no right to spread a deadly disease among the vulnerable by refusing to comply with safety protocol. Don’t like it, get another job! Your fear ends where our health begins, no matter your misguided false science!
Evidently you have not been listening to the news lately. The vaccinated are carrying extremely high viral loads and many of them are now being registered into hospitals.
Like I said, this is an experiment. God has given us the freedom to choose. You shall know them by their fruits. Force is a rotten fruit and could very well result in rotten results.
You might want to pay closer attention to the news. The vaccinated are carrying far higher viral loads now. Currently, the best practice is to stay away from vaccinated people.
Isn’t it astounding how the unvaccinated that recover from the virus have a 13x stronger immune system than the vaccinated? God’s design continues to shine!
Total nonsense, fake news from faux noise, absolutely false. I saw all those videos, even more so, that feed this propaganda. Fauci, a hero, is hated as was Christ, whi went about doing good!
When you people cry tyranny, look at the red states and see the voting restrictions based on the BIG LIE of election fraud. Look at the Texas republicants (cant govern) and see how society is turned against each other to rob personal decision making in family matters of family palnning. There you will find the tyranny in both cases!
Alberta, the bastion for conservative values in Canada, is now leading Canada in daily cases, cases/100,000, positivity rate and transmission rate, and our hospitals are now at 95% capacity (this is all being driven by the unvaccinated)…we were the 1st province in canada to throw out masking in public, right before the Calgary Stampede, in early July, which generally attracts millions…our conservative premier, who caters to hardcore rural conservatives at every opportunity, has just announced a plan to pay each unvaccinated person, mainly rural conservatives, $100.00 of tax payer money to get the shot, at the same time he’s trying to roll back wages for nurses who’ve slaved under heavy discouragement and even threats from the unvaccinated…
i can tell you, nothing of what you’re saying is what we’re seeing up here…
the unvaccinated are becoming more and more odious to more and more people, as is our premier…I’m even hearing people say that they should be denied hospital care (I don’t see that happening), and that premier kenney should be recalled or impeached…most businesses now want to find a legal way to ban the unvaccinated…but the province is refusing to issue vaccine passports because rural conservatives don’t want them…our premier isn’t interested in protecting the vaccinated…
we’ll have to see how long this stalemate can last…our next election is two yrs away, but at this point, kenney is the least popular premier in Canada …
This is a reasonable response and all news stations are saying pretty much the same thing. I agree with your conslusions as they are backed up with data.
The difference is some people believe more in freedom of choice as they see it. An example is the JW religion even though their belief against blood transfusions is harmful.
Unfortunately the vax has been used as a political football on both sides. Distrust of the media also comes in. The post mentions CNN, and many of us have seen blatant politically-inspired lies on this station, so it is hard for some to trust this source.
These posts also blame the hospitals when they say it is a government policy
If there is such news, I have not heard it, and it is not on either right or left-leaning news sources. Our doctors are also unaware of it.
DId Israel cry “personal liberties” when God laid out strict COMMUNITY health laws in Leviticus? To protect the life and health of others is “doing unto others” as Jesus taught.
I don’t really think that grasps the broader picture, because you could be making the very same point about Thalidomide in 1960s. Look, women who take it don’t suffer from sever nausea, and women who don’t take it do.
Well, plenty of medical professional pushed it as safe drug with no evidence of that from long-term studies as to what could be any detrimental effects that may not show up short term.
Hence, you really seem to misunderstand the context. This isn’t just some vaccine, since it’s by standard medical definition of what vaccine is… is not a vaccine. It’s a gene therapy that induces immune system response. Not only it’s a gene therapy, but
It’s novel therapy with very limited human trials before it went into broad mass-production
The approval that it got from FDA is emergency use authorization, meaning it’s expedited and rushed approval that that doesn’t wait long-term to see any potential problems.
Plenty of Tump’s critics were raising alarms over pressuring FDA into cutting corners and pushing approval for political reasons, which is when it got to mass production.
I remember the most notable was in charge of France vaccination policy, and he though that the idea of getting a novel gene therapy product that would be used on global population, and which only got a few months of human trials before getting there… was ABSOLUTELY ASININE. Do you know what happened to him? That’s right, he was fired for doing his job.
Again… never used gene therapy technology goes from 0 human trials to every person in the world in a matter of months… hello??? anyone there??? You can’t be THAT blinded by your ideological preferences.
So please, I beg of you, please stop with all of the pointing to policy and endless support of policy. It means absolutely nothing until we get viable long-term safety data to make sure there aren’t any problematic effects that were not evident short term.
Another issues is that ALL OF THE CURRENT VACCINES have not passed the standard requirements for FDA approval. ALL were released under EUA, and all of them carry legal immunity for government, institutions that administer them, and companies that produce them. So, if there happen to be any debilitating effects that leave people disabled… no one is getting sued, and no one is paying for anything.
Which, becomes a rather rapid rush to squeeze as many of the gene therapy products through that FDA precedent, that will do a lot more than generate spike protein, and with already an army of advocates like yourself running around pointing to UNETHICAL mass human trials going on right now and boasting of efficacy.
Don’t get me wrong. I do want it all work out positively. I hope everything works safely and effectively. BUT, this nonsense of defending all of this as “safe” with no long-term data, is too early.
If, God-forbid, there’s some global Thalidomide type of effect… are you willing to take responsibility for running around with pom poms, and ignoring warnings that simply want safe process to follow through which were established for a reason? Will you then turn around and blame Trump, when you were the one pointing to the “bottom line of more people in hospitals who are unvaxinated” ?
Hence, unless you can sign a waver that will guarantee that everyone’s immune system will be healthy and intact 3 years from now with repeated dose of all of this to both healthy adults and children… for the love of all good … stop poking your finger into “sick in hospital” data as you demonize people who have legitimate questions and hesitancy.
If you think Covid is more risky… why? Again… you have no long-term data, and vaccination in scope of mandate is more certain that catching Covid. So, you aren’t even parsing risks correctly. You are basically saying… “trust these guys”, which “these guys” are the THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE US.
more than 250,000!!! people die every year due to medical errors (I mean why would some people be hesitant medical system killed or crippled their loved ones… it’s a MYSTERY)
Meaning, in the past two years of Covid, almost as many were killed by medical incompetence. These are docs that prescribe meds that are “safe” and kill people. These are docs that fail to properly diagnose medical issues, and end up putting people through procedures that kill them.
So, stop pointing to that as some God-like standard of unquestionable reliability just because they say “trust my sensibility”, especially when they ignore legitimate concerns to favor policy, especially when they are pressured to do so.
And your statement applies?? Context, my friend, context.
Oh my! Fauci to Christ? Really now!
The voting big lie is that Biden won legally and fairly. The evidence is there and the audits are validating this, by more than mere ballot counting. But will the state legislators withdraw their electoral votes when and if the Supreme Court validates the evidence? No court has yet to look at the evidence as they will not even take on the case as they use the “lack of standing” excuse. Time will tell. But that is what must take place to undo the election. If enough states did withdraw their electoral votes down below the 270 mark then Biden is no longer president. The question I have not heard addressed is who then will be the president or acting president, Trump or Pelosi?