Adventists and the Wall


#21

“Christians” have used this same level of thinking for centuries to support their approach and handling of fellow humans. It has a long history of suffering, pain, and blood and will be held to account in the end.


#22

Hadrians wall worked very well…


(George Tichy) #23

With a wall like that, I believe they got many Mexicans crossing it easily… Look at those ones… Piece of cake for them … :roll_eyes:


(Jeffrey Kent) #24

Don’t worry about the wall. Portions already exist, and additional portions may be built, but there will never be a complete wall, as promised by Trump, in his lifetime or ours.

For the 211 miles planned for southern Texas after legislative approval in 2006, more than 300 private landowners went to court and nearly a third of those cases remain in court more than a decade later. The cost of these cases has been astronomical. And there are nearly 5,000 private parcels along the entire border!

The construction itself would be far more expensive than Trump’s administration has proposed, and would be greatly complicated by floodplain and environmental issues. Portions of the border are also exceptionally rugged and remote, with steep canyons in some areas, that make a wall downright impossible to build or extremely expensive.

It ain’t gonna happen.


(Nathan Robinson) #25

Well, I am not a political historian, but I do get the feeling that this neat separation is an USA-centric way of approaching issues where politics seem at odds with Christian morality and ethics. Yes, civil government carries a sword, as did ancient Israel. However, they were a theocracy and swung the sword at God’s direction. All of the laws and principles of scripture are relatively easy to apply when God is enforcing them himself (or through a close proxy).Plus, passports and borders as sharp as that between the US and Mexico were not what Bible writers had in mind when they wrote about sojourners.

Where does biblical/christian ethics stop? Where should I draw the line? Is it at the home, or extended family, or local neighborhood, or place of business, or city, county, state or Federal levels? Where do I go from loving my neighbor and caring for the sojourner to picking up my gun and as a citizen of the state?

What disturbs me most is hearing blatant racism come from friends’ mouths under the cover of law and order.


(James ) #26

Patrick, there is a difference but it reminds us of that despicable Berlin Wall. The US border is on the east, north and west why not extend your prehistoric great “40 foot wall of America” all around the USA. Why only in the warm south? Please note that elections got consequences and the state of our democracy is very strong. Lets face a fact, after 2 years + of poor leadership of semi /wannabe dictatorship the state of the american democracy is strong so let Freedom Ring once again. The people have spoken and our democracy is saying we do not want that wall. So Patrick like Reagan once said tear down that wall. Blessings


(James ) #27

Also Patrick, before we rush to erect this great wall, “I am quoting from a historical piece” …
About half of Mexico was ceded to the United States in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

With the defeat of its army and the fall of its capital, Mexico entered into negotiations to end the war. The treaty called for the U.S. to pay US$15 million to Mexico and to pay off the claims of American citizens against Mexico up to US$5 million. It gave the United States the Rio Grande as a boundary for Texas, and gave the U.S. ownership of California and a large area comprising roughly half of New Mexico, most of Arizona, Nevada, and Utah, and parts of Wyoming and Colorado. Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to within Mexico’s new boundaries or receiving American citizenship with full civil rights.

The U.S. Senate advised and consented to ratification of the treaty by a vote of 38–14. The opponents of this treaty were led by the Whigs, who had opposed the war and rejected Manifest destiny in general, and rejected this expansion in particular. The amount of land gained by the United States from Mexico was increased as a result of the Gadsden Purchase of 1853, which ceded parts of present-day southern Arizona and New Mexico to the United States of America.


(Patrick Travis) #28

Well, I am willing to wait and hear the King of Kings give the account.


(Patrick Travis) #29

Do you leave the door to your house open for people to come and go as they please?


(Patrick Travis) #30

The wall to the south is simply where most of the illegal entries take place.
Are you aware that in the past you could not qualify to enter the US and apply for citizenship without a sponsor who was held accountable for one’s financial well being?
The present system defies reason! It puts undue pressure on local resources such as healthcare and education. Cost and accountability are lost.


(Robert Lindbeck) #31

It is easy to sit on the other side of the globe and wonder at the goings on in the US. I do not envy the choices that have to be made every day. What does puzzle me is the complete lack of empathy that is on show in some of the posts.
Yes, laws are important and help keep order but they are not the end goal. Humanity and humane behaviour must take precedence. Genuine refugees need to be accepted. Those found not to be refugees should be returned. This should be done in a humane way that maintains people’s dignity.
There was a movie a few years ago, I think it was called “The Day After Tomorrow”. In a twist to the normal movie where the US rides to the rescue, American citizens are forced to flee as refugees to Mexico. If that were to happen today, how willing would the Mexicans be to accepting a flood of US refugees?
My son shared something the other day on FB in relation to the wall. “What if the Mexicans decide to build stairs on their side?”


(Patrick Travis) #32

Point? China thinks they own all SE Asia because they once had their feet on it and claimed it. Established history and present borders are what they are.


(Sirje) #33

Well, it’s clear to me that we need to send a caravan of busses to the Mexico’Guatamala border and bring those people across both borders. How can we watch all those mothers with their bambinos on their backs struggling across Mexico, only to be raped and robbed. We’re just watching as the drug cartels are stuffing their pockets with money that was given to them in desperation to get them through Mexico. It 's immoral to send our reporters to march with them, as they aim their cameras on these desperate people and do nothing. It reminds me of The Hunger Games.


(Patrick Travis) #34

Correct Sirje. This happens because politicians do nothing and it is incentivized. That no action is what is immoral and creates the “emergency” at the border.


(George Tichy) #35

The proof that it is strong is the fact that it is still prevailing despite the harsh, violent attacks it has suffered in the past 2 years +.
But it’s still under fierce attack, and I hope people in Congress wake up from their marasmus and stand up for democracy.
(I am referring to those in the Senate who oppose protecting American Democracy. I wonder if they, too, speak Russian… :wink: )


(James ) #36

And finally Patrick, after reading the Peace and Friendship Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the US owes Mexico and our southern relatives fleeing for their freedom so much that the borders should be wide open like the Canadian border to create a wonderful utopia called America the Beautiful. We basically took Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado from our neighbors/relatives. The treaty gave the Mexicans in those annexed states American citizenship with full civil rights. Please make me the next President and I will give all our relatives in the south yearning to be free full American citizenship instead of a wall. Can’t you see now why we should just all get along and be Great Americans? Blessing


(George Tichy) #37

You got my vote! I don’t even know you, but I know that anyone can do better than what we have now, the worst POTUS ever. But you need to run for it right away in 2020, before a decree is issued that every American citizen needs to learn Russian, in order to understand the current real US President… :roll_eyes: :innocent:

And I will be running for the GC presidency. Do I have your vote?.. :laughing:


(James ) #38

Yes George … Yes We Can. I love this American democracy. I am such a novice like wannabe about government but I promise you that I will do a better job building up the broken infrastructure and provide free Health Care for all with $5 billion. The people will elect us to both dream jobs. Where do I get an application form for this job, President of these United States? lol


(George Tichy) #39

I have been looking for an application form to apply for candidacy in 2020. For some unexplained reason, those forms were not yet printed. They say they will be available only in Oct/2020… I think it’s because EGW discouraged competition and Ted Wilson follows her blindly… :wink:


(James ) #40

George, I’ll need a knowledgeable Vice President to tell me what to do. That GC process is unfortunately still closed to the majority.