AdventNetwork of Southern Africa Issues Statement After Annual Council Compliance Vote


#181

Adventist Fundamental Beliefs emphasize the Holy Spirit’s authority in gifting and calling beyond all human differences. This isn’t a matter of “women’s lib” any more than human rights‘ opposition to slavery makes that unbiblical. There is no official Adventist doctrine that excludes women from ministry or church leadership roles.

See the following:
Unity in the Body of Christ, Fundamental Belief 14
Spiritual Gifts and Ministries, Fundamental Belief 17

I challenge those who claim membership in the SDA church and Bible as sole source of truth but persist believe in gender discrimination to answer the question below regarding:

Does the Holy Spirit call who He deems fit for service to God?
Y__ or N__

Does the SDA church have the authority to create a policy that over rules the Holy Spirit choice of spiritual gift distribution to believers on the basis of gender or create sub-classes based on gender?
Y__ or N__


(George Tichy) #182

Well, you know, I don’t want to be reprimanded in public by Ted…


(George Tichy) #183

Sorry David, I don’t qualify for answering your questions…
(Good luck getting an answer from the discriminators of women!)


(Denny) #185

I have not seen not even one of our fundamental beliefs that is not backed up by less than approx 10 verses from the OT and NT to back it up… Yes you can opine your own opinion or you can say “you think” about a subject, but we as Adventists are known to have a signature of digging deep into the Word and having our beliefs truly backed up by Scripture… And i dont mean twisted meanings of verses we would see from other Christian faiths.


(Denny) #186

Yes

No

However, it is not subject to your interpretation of the classes or genders and where they can or cannot be used that matters… What matters is what the Bible and SOP have taught and what precedent they have set… The whole world can say that Sunday is the true day or worship, as it is there are many laws for businesses and trading on Sunday etc, but that will never change our stance on the fact that the 7th day Sabbath is Saturday… So also the issue of WO to gospel ministry… Is that the only area women can serve and work???Honestly…Everything is just centering on that small sphere and you are ignoring all the many other areas women are effective in minstry and mission. Its like if WO doesnt happen then all the women are rendered immobile?hmm


(Denny) #187

The wedding ring issue is clear and simple from the SOP. You therefore use your convictions depending on the region youre in and how you have understood the matter from the SOP… However that is not a fundamental issue to the Adventists as that does not have a direct bearing on salvation per se.


(Tim Teichman) #188

Have you read them? I have looked many of them up and it seems highly doubtful that many of them apply.

Does this change the fact that we all don’t agree on many things?

That’s the pot calling the kettle black! Some of our doctrines can only be supported by a single translation of the bible - in English. And then only through some excruciating logic.


(Tim Teichman) #189

If wearing a ring or not is up to my convictions, then why do we even talk about it in the church?

I’m over 50 and a 4th generation Adventist and I’ve never had anyone, even my SDA pastor grandfather, explain it to me. Please explain what you mean, show it is clear and simple, and quote your sources.


(Nkosi) #190

I’m sorry sir, I might get blocked after this, it’s a fact I’ve known from a number of my friends that spectrum blocks those they don’t agree with. Sad indeed. however on this one, I’m puzzled by what appears to be your obsessions with one Ted Wilson. is it fair that we ask that we debate issues not individuals? Just an observation


(Denny) #191

I not only have read read but i have been teaching the baptismal class some time for more than 5 years… I have studied them personally as well.


(Denny) #192

i dont believe that to be true… However obviously if you use e.g. the NWT for the JWs then certainly Jesus will never be established as being divine and the 2nd Person of the Godhead… Thats a no brainer… Other translations are known to have embedded errors put into them… But obviously some will cry consipracy theory…


(Denny) #193

There is no harm in discussing about the wedding band… However it is NOT a test of fellowship and thus the matter of conscience and understanding comes in… However the aspects of jewellery and immodest dress, Sabbath, Godhead etc are tests of fellowship because these are our core pillars and distinguishing marks… The wedding band, eating meat, wearing a tie or jacket on the pulpit are not tests of fellowship.


(Tim Teichman) #194

It’s not a matter of belief as it can be shown. This is why the church uses the KJV so much.

After several months working in Germany in the late 1800’s or early 1900’s, our first missionary wrote the General Conference that he could not hold a revelation seminar in Germany, in German, using the German bible. There was no way to twist the words enough to make them say what we read in the KJV. He resigned (or was terminated) and returned home to America.

That is how long the church has been on notice that some of the teachings only work using specific biblical translations, which should have given them pause. Did they go to the source texts in Greek and Hebrew? If they did, I wonder what they found?


(Denny) #195

[Special Testimonies, Series A 3:6, 7 (1895).]

Some have had a burden in regard to the wearing of a marriage ring, feeling that the wives of our ministers should conform to this custom. All this is unnecessary. Let the ministers’ wives have the golden link which binds their souls to Jesus Christ, a pure and holy character, the true love and meekness and godliness that are the fruit borne upon the Christian tree, and their influence will be secure anywhere. The fact that a disregard of the custom occasions remark is no good reason for adopting it. Americans can make their position understood by plainly stating that the custom is not regarded as obligatory in our country. We need not wear the sign, for we are not untrue to our marriage vow, and the wearing of the ring would be no evidence that we were true. I feel deeply over this leavening process which seems to be going on among us, in the conformity to custom and fashion. Not one penny should be spent for a circlet of gold to testify that we are married. In countries where the custom is imperative, we have no burden to condemn those who have their marriage ring; let them wear it if they can do so conscientiously; but let not our missionaries feel that the wearing of the ring will increase their influence one jot or tittle. If they are Christians, it will be manifest in their Christlikeness of character, in their words, in their works, in the home, in association with others; it will be evinced by their patience and long-suffering and kindliness. They will manifest the spirit of the Master, they will possess His beauty of character, His loveliness of disposition, His sympathetic heart. {TM 180.2}

[For further study: Testimonies for the Church 4:630, 631, 640-648; Evangelism, 269-272.]


(Tim Teichman) #196

What are the tests of Fellowship that you’re referring to?

Are they what the CG, including Ellen, decided? There were exactly two tests if I remember correctly: The Saturn’s Day Sabbath and the impending return of Jesus.


(Denny) #197

In the period of the Reformation, they had the Tyndale Bible, the Cloverdale Bible, Luthers translations etc…You know the history… you must note that the characters Wescott and Hort had their agendas in their translations of the bible and they detested the KJV calling it a serpent because it taught the doctrines with pin point accuracy… Yes, the english can be difficult at times and one can use other versions to assist… However you also need to remember the difference between a translation and a paraphase bible. Some other translations capture some points of docrtine but not fully. there are many studies that have been done looking at the differences of versions, you can look those up objectively.


(Denny) #198

A test of fellowhsip is that mark or signature that shows that you and me are of the same family… Our surname is our fundamental… e.g. how can one say i can or cannot obey the 10 commandments? How can you choose? Or how can one choose to accept or deny that Jesus is God…??Or how can you choose evolution over the 7 day creation week just because the professor said so? Etc… All those and more (28 so far… they can continue to be added) are our “surname” as Adventists. Light will continue to increase as the Lord leads.


(Tim Teichman) #199

I don’t see how this quote supports your position and it does not at all add any clarity.

Not very many customs are. I don’t know about the accuracy of Ellen’s take on the custom in her time, but I expect it is actually quite different now than it was then. It is a very good idea to wear a ring for many reasons, such as if you have a job and work with other people.

A directive almost everyone ignores. This is part of why your quote does not help. When whole chunks of it have been rejected by most people, including people like all of the SDA pastors that I know, it becomes hard to find the parts that can guide in any meaningful way.


(Nkosi) #200

Yeah freedom of speech like blocking those that don’t agree with you. Rich indeed!


(Tim Teichman) #201

What sort of minority are you referring to?

What sort of discrimination have you experienced? Based on your race, gender, age? Some other protected class?