AdventNetwork of Southern Africa Issues Statement After Annual Council Compliance Vote

(Tim Teichman) #202

Sissy? What do you mean by a sissy? And what would be wrong with being one?

(Tim Teichman) #203

Maybe a little too much?

(Tim Teichman) #204

The KJV was not indented to be particularly accurate by the translators, per their notes, and is not considered particularly accurate today. Many modern translations are considered more accurate by translators.

Oh I do? Well, thanks so much for that. I’d forgotten.

(Denny) #205

What was my positon regarding the ring… I am very interested to hear what position i took?

(Denny) #206

I am married… My wife has a ring, i dont have… I work and interact with many people in society and i have never felt the need for a ring nor have i been pressured by anyone to wear one… Actually there are many non SDAs who dont wear rings. So thats why i said its neither here nor there but subject to your conviction upon that which the Bible and Sr white have written.

(Tim Teichman) #207

This is not an answer to my question. What are the tests of fellowship you refer to?

(Denny) #208

State your case… Have you taught that class? Do you teach the adult sabbath school, i do now? Are you well versed with our fundamentals were you to take on a JW ? Or you would say Jesus will guide us to the light separately?

Those beliefs i have taught have come in handy…At one point with some of my friends we were engaged in almost 1 year of bible study with a JW elderly lady who was previously an Adventist! She tried this way and that way but we agreed to disagree…Off course she was using her NWT but we also debated from that perspective to bring her out but off course it was a stalemate. I speak from experience in the field not just debates on online forums.

(Denny) #209

Clearly you didnt read a word i said my brother…I gave the examples in the succeeding paragraph… Must i copy paste for you?

(Tim Teichman) #210

You wrote:

Your position is that the issue is “clear and simple from the SOP”.

I asked what you mean, since I have never thought it to be clear or simple.

(Denny) #211

Well said bro! Some forums become a haven of the like minded encouraging debate in one line and not accepting of any other view…You are then labelled as a discriminator etc…hmm…sad.

(Denny) #212

“”""However it is NOT a test of fellowship and thus the matter of conscience and understanding comes in… However the aspects of jewellery and immodest dress, "

i wrote this…Did you understand that part?

(Tim Teichman) #213

I read what you wrote very carefully. It does not indicate what you think the church’s tests of faith are.

Since I don’t know what they are, or what you think they are, I asked you what you think they are. Surely there must be a list that you’re referring to, as I think the church has one now just as it did in the beginning, when it had two. I just don’t know what it is or if it has officially changed.

(Tim Teichman) #214

No. No amount of throwing out quotes as if that explains what you think will answer the question about what you think.

(Denny) #215

I mentioned the 28 fundamental beliefs and if more are added in future according to revelation and the Word…You cannot merely refer to the Sabbath and 2nd coming of Jesus just because they make up our name…How many other churches out there worship on the sabbath and are waiting for Jesus? probably well over 1000 by my own estimate… So what then makes us remnant (if you still believe that notion) vs others? It must be whole Bible being our creed.

(Tim Teichman) #216

You think the 28 fundamental beliefs are among the test of faith? I don’t think this is what the church teaches, though I heard Ted state in a speech relayed here that anyone who doens’t agree with all of them isn’t really an Adventist and should leave.

Huh? The point of a creed is to summarize what you believe in a concise way. The whole bible can’t be a creed. In any case the Adventist church expressly claims to not have a creed. And I didn’t ask about a creed so don’t know why you brought it up.

(Denny) #217

My brother…If you go teaching that the 10 commandments are not to be kept or that one of them has been removed, or if you go teaching that Jesus is not God then you have no place among us… This is not a social club, but a world family church… Why do people want to remain being identified as Adventists but they are ready to trash some or all our fundamentals? You are free to start your own movement or join one that sides with your beliefs. There is no room for pluralism on our fundamentals…There is room for diverging opinions on matters that are not tests of faith as i have previosly mentioned.


You are absolutely correct Tim, based on the church founders these are not a weapon to use against each other or as a means to secure uniformity but rather a means to correct misconceptions or false statements about the beliefs of the church from those within and without.

“The first step of apostasy is to get up a creed, telling us what we shall believe. The second is, to make that creed a test of fellowship. The third is to try members by that creed. The fourth to denounce as heretics those who do not believe that creed. And fifth, to commence persecution against such.”

Several summaries of Adventist theology have been presented at various times that culminate in what we now have today. Below is a summary for anyone who is interested.

  • In 1872 a pamphlet was produced presenting twenty-five Fundamental Principles not to “secure uniformity” but “to meet inquiries” and “to correct false statements.”

  • In 1931 a list of 22 Fundamental Beliefs[6] was produced and published in the Adventist Yearbook, and subsequently in the Adventist Church Manual.

  • In 1980, the 27 Fundamentals were instituted by the denomination’s General Conference. Fritz Guy was the secretary of the original committee which produced the 27 Fundamentals. They were discussed and adopted at the 1980 General Conference Session. Ron Graybill wrote the preamble. They are expanded upon in the book Seventh-day Adventists Believe: A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines (a good book to have a look at).

  • In 2005 another belief was inserted, fundamental belief number 11 “Growing in Christ”, in response to the requests of Adventists for a statement on spiritual warfare. It was voted in at the 2005 Adventist General Conference Session held in St. Louis, Missouri, yielding the current total of 28.

Knowing why these were setup and how they are to be used will help us apply them appropriately.

It appears some commentators are already working past the second step.

(Denny) #219

I ask you a simple 5 cent question:

What makes you different from these churches?

  1. International Sanctuary Research Center
  2. IMS Seventh Day Adventist Church Reform Movement
  3. Internet Church of God
  4. Israel Assemblies of Yahweh, Inc
  5. Israel’s Messiah Has Come!

They are just 5 out of 563 sabbath keeping church many of whom also accept the coming of Christ…Why not join them?

If you dont undertand what a creed is then its unfortunate… The opening statement of our Fundamental belifs states:

“Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental
beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute
the church’s understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these
statements may be expected at a General Conference Session when the church is led by
the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to
express the teachings of God’s Holy Word.”

You are free not to accept the Bible as our creed but that simply means you dont desire to continue fellowship with us like minded persons. True or false? You cannot have your cake and eat it the English say. :slight_smile:

(Denny) #220

I think you are talking about the medieval church if you follow the Reformation and prophecy… The succession of Bible believing churches down to ours has never changed the Sola Scriptura mantra and never will…once again you cannot claim to be a bible believing Christian but deny those very revealed bible tenets i.e Present truth for our time. Its either you will acknowledge the light revealed or reject it. this is what makes Adventists different and a perculiar people (a royal priesthood according to 1 Peter 2v9)… This same concept in Deut 6 and 7 is what made the Israelites a chosen nation in their time among the heathen nations around them.

(Robert Lindbeck) #221

@BroDenny how are wedding rings any less jewelry than, say earrings? If a weeding ring is bad, so are earings. If earrings are bad, then so are wedding rings.