AdventNetwork of Southern Africa Issues Statement After Annual Council Compliance Vote


#263

Yeah wasn’t it the servant of Abraham who took a golden nose ring along as a gift to be presented to the woman he selected as a bride for Isaac.

Didn’t the Israelites receive from the Egyptians on their way out of town various jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment.

Other examples as well, guess these are then a bit of a paradox for some…


(Denny) #264

If we are to cite the whole acts and behaviour of the Israelites without seeing whats in harmony with the bible and whats not, we will be in trouble… The Israelites made a golden calf, committed fornication with the Moabites etc etc, is that then precedent to follow or caution to stay away from? Some things were also done out of ignorance after all they were in slavery a long time and had lost the way.


(Red Livingstone) #265

It gets tricky when one wants to misunderstand scripture. How would one explain:

Isaiah 61:10 New International Version (NIV) (for @BroDenny’s convenience)
10 I delight greatly in the Lord;
my soul rejoices in my God.
For he has clothed me with garments of salvation
and arrayed me in a robe of his righteousness,
as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest,
and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

I’m thinking that these garments of salvation are not too shabby! :innocent:


(Denny) #266

Your question is on what part of the text exactly? or the whole?


(Kim Green) #267

Not exactly my kind of job…but may appeal to many here. :laughing:


#268

Please reference Exodus 3:15-22 and you will find it was a command by God to Moses.


(Red Livingstone) #269

The whole. And the WHOLE in context. The whole in the entire OT and NT when it describes our relationship to God, but more specifically how God describes his Love for us.


(Denny) #270

What was a command to Moses? To make a golden calf? Fornication with the Moabites? I am not getting you.


(Denny) #271

Isaiah i believe is speaking to the Middle Eastern context of his time when brides were adorned with jewels etc for a wedding… Note that it does not mean that Isaiah is citing a Jewish bride or couple… But if so, it does not mean he is therefore formulating a doctrine on dress… This is similar to 1 Cor 9v24 onwards where paul talks about running a race but that does not mean he condoned the Romans and their races, or when he talks about the boxer beating the air does not mean paul says we can also fight… Christ in His parables also used portions that were contextual with His society and their levels of understanding, but didnt mean He was expounding fully on a doctrine e.g. the rich man and lazarus didnt mean Jesus was now saying there is a literal hell where people were/are burning till now.

i hope i answered ?


(Red Livingstone) #272

So how do you explain the pearl of great price?

Matthew 13:45-46 King James Version (KJV) (@BroDenny prefered version)

45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

It gets tricky when some like to doctrine-ize some texts and not others. It is this issue of selective “reasoning” that is a challenge for me.

It brings me to the recent October 13 sermon that was preached at Battle Creek. There were many areas that were extolled but not actually biblical doctrine… for example: “healthy plant-based lifestyle”… or my favorite: “unbiblical worship styles” (not extolled but enthusiastically damned)


(Tim Teichman) #273

Do you keep the 10 commandments? All of them? Everything instructed in them? All three versions of them?


(Tim Teichman) #274

Baptismal class? No. I have no interest in the non-biblical indoctrination process that entails today.

I do teach adult sabbath school from time to time. I don’t know what “i do now?” means at the end of your question. Seems like two sentences?

What do you mean by a JW? A Jew? Take on?

I do not support the 28 - either their content or their use as tests of faith as that is not why they were published. Recent changes have made them worse than ever.

Don’t know who us is. Or what guiding to the light means do you. Seems like a catch-phrase with some sort of assumed meaning.

Well, your description of you and your friends spending a year working an old lady, trying to get an ex-Adventist to come back to the church and failing at it does not make it sound like your beliefs were handy or effective. Sounds like the elderly lady knew her bible and knew what she believed. Good for her.


(Robert Lindbeck) #275

Unbiblical styles of worship do not include using tambourines (Go Sallies) and dancing. Perhaps we should be more vigorous in our praise and celebration.

Exo 15:20 — Exo 15:21 (HCSB)
Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron’s sister, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women followed her with their tambourines and danced. Miriam sang to them:
Sing to the Lord,
for He is highly exalted;
He has thrown the horse
and its rider into the sea.

Exo 15:20 — Exo 15:21 (KJV)
And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. And Miriam answered them,
Sing ye to the Lord, for he hath triumphed gloriously;
the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.


(Robert Lindbeck) #276

@BroDenny, you seem to take great pride and satisfaction in your knowledge of the scriptures. I applaud and encourage everyone to follow the Bereans and have a greater knowledge of scripture.

You also appear to see “evangelism” as a battle where you “weaponize” the knowledge you have.

Life is a battle. Paul asks us in Eph 6:10-18 to put on the full armour of God. The items in that description are defensive, not attacking or aggresive weapons. Many are turned off the gospel message by overly enthusiastic preaching of human standards of measure and behaviour. Christ never took this approach. He did rail against those who corrupted His worship, but not against those seeking Him.

“Christ’s method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, “Follow Me.”” Ministry of Healing p143


(Red Livingstone) #277

Yes! @robelle

Biblical worship rocks!

It is dangerous ground to dictate how one must worship. After all, true worship is a response.

God speaks. God moves. God is beautiful. We respond. We create. We worship. (Michael Card)

As long as i am simply and honestly myself before God, that is what counts. (Eugene Peterson)

i am not but i know I AM (Louie Giglio)
God was in this place and I, i did not know (Rabbi Lawrence Kushner) …hence the lower case “i” in the Eugene Peterson quote and Giglio quote, my added emphasis on the lack of capitalization.


#278

Please reference Exodus 3:15-22 and you will find it was a command by God to Moses.


#279

For some it would seem that no question should be answered without misdirection, no statement viewed as anything but a threat, engagement with brethren should be provocative, and any replies to commentators should be adversarial.

It would seem that at some elementary level, the church is substituted for God. Our faithfulness is measured by our faithfulness to the church and its many aspects. Instead of statues and idols - some have the concept of the “remnant” church which has become an idol in itself. The whole issue becomes even more complicated when we’re born into the church or have so ingrained our sense of identity as one with the church. Any statements that are perceived outside of this identity must be dealt with sharp disagreement, denial and obfuscation. So consumed by this that they forget that their is anything else and by their words lay bare who is the master of their heart. By long practice have rejected the Saviors method of communication and are incapable of even recognizing their lot


(Denny) #280

Thank you for condemning her to darkness… But judging from the fact that you dont accept any of the 28 fundamental beliefs i then gather you are NOT an SDA in verity. Sorry to put it bluntly… Its one thing to argue over the Complaince doc or even WO but we remain of one fold… But denial of bible based doctrines; thats another story between you and Jesus. I will not further this discussion as it is now your own personal relationship with the Lord and His body.


(Denny) #281

I would not say i have pride regarding my knowledge of the Word… There are others i look up to have even a more in depth knowledge than me… But we all seek the light and to grow at the end of the day. Peter said we must be ready to give an answer with regards our faith (1Pe_3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:), and Paul admonished Timothy to study the Word to show himself approved, a workmen who can rightly divide the word of truth…That is where we should be headed to as Adventists… Otherwise whats the point of God commiting to us His last day message before the world is destroyed when all we know is Genesis 1v1 and have added vs2…???Even heathens and occultists know more of the Word then than we do. We are to be a perculiar people and i believe this is the aim also of this forum and our discussions. If our discussions are merely of the Athenian and Epicurean nature just to pass time and see “whats new” then its unfortunate…


(Denny) #282

a JW is a Jehovah’s Witness in abbreviation… Anyway, if you know them and the history of their bible translation (which it seems like you have no clue) then you would know that if they stick to their “structured” bible translation then nobody can convince them otherwise…Mind you, she is the one who called us to study with her and we agreed.

I think its very sad for one not to realize when someone is in darkness and error, more so to even say good for her… Our studies with her were not “win” her over, as that is the work of the Holy Spirit, ours was to plant the seed …Please re-read some of the gospel parables on sowing etc. They will come in handy.

God bless