The SAU Excom before 2015 had its own report that supported the ordination of women. Last year a delegate from the SAU, stood up at the AC and challenged the document that was being presented and voted against it(Pity he has since left denominational employment to run his own law practice) But I am certain that this year again, the SAU, though no one might take the floor, those attending from this part of the worldwide church will vote against the Recommendation to have a police state Inn the church.
2 Likes
i think it was about two or three yrs ago that there was a lot of talk of a so-called ratsara maneuver, in which paul ratsara, president of SID at the time, unilaterally submitted SID’s TOSC in terms of a unanimous anti-WO recommendation, heading into san antonio…some believe he found a way to manipulate the delegate votes at san antonio, as well…
i would say that if africa is against the compliance review committees, there’s no chance they’ll be adopted…after-all, africa is pretty much calling the shots for the world church now…
1 Like
David,
You are correct to inquire about the nature of South Africa!
In my mind South Africa has always stood aside from the rest of sub-Saharan Africa. As a boy South Africa was accepted as part of the Western world - the Global North in today’s terms. Through the years as it has become a rainbow nation of many ethnicities, it’s standing as part of the Global North has receded.
We must remember that the first adult heart transplant was done in Capetown, South Africa in 1967 by Dr Christian Barnard. Even today, a medical degree from a South African university is respected throughout the world as being second to none.
1 Like
Is Africa calling the shots for the world church because only of its influential votes or they are “truer” to God than the “Global North?”
2 Likes
Let’s forget about having a “delegate” vote for us. Send the issue to each individual church and the side that gathers the most individual votes win. If a person doesn’t “win” they exercise their right to leave, start their own church, wait for the issue to come up again and campaign. We don’t even know who is our delegate most of time or what they will be voting on. How is that democratic?
1 Like
Elmer –
Great Question!!!
1 Like
LOL, that’s true, the Ratsara maneuver…
The one (maneuver) you referred to worked well for his purpose at that time. But he was then caught in another (fraudulent) “maneuver” later on that was actually fatal to his career. Though he tried, not even TW was able to save Ratsara.
Just think of it, Ratsara was one of the names seriously considered for GC President in 2010…
Why is it so difficult to find a competent person to the GC President? I hope they find someone competent in 2020! Enough of incompetence!!! I am actually thinking of a name… 
1 Like
interesting question…it’s obvious that they have the votes to get their way, and that at least some of them do think they’re truer to god - that the global north is decadent and worldly, especially PUC - and that their role is to keep the church true to its mission…but this perception that they’re the guardians of the church may be a result of the influence of conservatives in NAD…conservatives in NAD definitely believe they’re the guardians of the church…
2 Likes
george, we all know you’re thinking of yourself…but your biggest problem is your stated intention to dissolve the GC in 2 yrs, or was it 6 months…
personally, i think a good choice for GC president would be TED’s raafat kamal…i think i read somewhere that he has five graduate degrees, but you wouldn’t know it, because he really does have such a common touch…i just think we need someone from europe to keep our feet grounded to the reformation, and to referee the battle that’s been brewing between NAD and the global south…i don’t think we can have another president from NAD, and i don’t think we can have a president from the global south - not after san antonio…
1 Like
That was what Ellen White was trying to state, you don’t need a president at the GC.
2 Likes
Six months Jeremy! I don’t have more time than that. My patients cannot wait more than 6 months to have me back. Though Elmer @elmer_cupino would be covering for me…
3 Likes
Would you say the Mid-America Union, Iowa-Missouri conference and the Advent Network of South Africa are of the conservative bent? If it were, then TW is in pretty hot waters. However I have to give him credit for being able to “unite” the church to stand up against him. What a means to achieve his own goal. A formidable feat! Even our own honorable George @GeorgeTichy couldn’t do such a thing. 
4 Likes
That would be impossible indeed! … LOL
2 Likes
Yes, this “Unity” is a knife that may come back and cut him both ways…lol
2 Likes
I think there are enough decent people around the world to gather their influence and stop this nonsense. The report at General Conference and Division Officers Divided in Latest Vote on “Compliance” Document
gives me some hope that something may change and the tragic outcome that we have been expecting may not actually happen.
Is God already working on those people? I mean…, 50% against Wilson even before the AC started officially? WOW, this is already a big defeat!!!
4 Likes
i would say that the compliance review committees, for all their potential, are extremely doubtful at this point…
1 Like
I still have hope and faith that the Holy Spirit will have an impact upon hearts and avoid the pain and suffering that will come to the church should TW’s divisive actions be allowed to continue. Nothing good will come out of moving forward to a complete bloodbath. Nothing. Ever.
All is needed is to look at the other schismed denoms…sure they survive- but at what cost and at what example to the rest of the world?
4 Likes
Today, looking at what happened to America in the Senate, it seems that evil is gaining territory quickly. First was the Presidency, now the Senate collapsed, and the SCOTUS is definitely compromised.
Could the same be happening to the Church? There are already many parallels between the two of them.
2 Likes
I have always said that culture has impacted the church more than the other way around. Besides, politics is just politics no matter what…has it really ever changed throughout millennia? Nothing new under the sun…
1 Like
It is hard to understand a close mindset, and I think impossible. When people go pass a point of no return, they don’t give a …to what happens or the consequences, and usually they are the first to commit suicide (Hitler). Suicide is like abandoned the ship, when it is sinking.
I want to make an observation, can each of you please ask your local conference or union to show you there constitution, and make sure that it has not been changed without the constitutency permission, because I believe there are places which have changed their constitutions to reflect the centralised idea. That in my book is fraud, and all involved should go to prison.
1 Like