I failed to get that “memo” in time.
3 Likes
Sadly, yes. And TW has written that we should never listen to non-Adventist sermons. We should only listen to our own “humble” preachers. {And never unlearn errors.)
4 Likes
Isn’t it ironic that the more you interact with someone, the more you know about them? If your goal is to know God more, your wisdom will increase. The idea is that one must never think they have figured out God. Like the cosmos, the more you know about Him, the more you realize how much is there to know…
6 Likes
A good example of wrong use of “authority”
Now, my sister, … I write … to tell you that we are not to give the least credence to the day line theory. It is a snare of Satan brought in by his own agents to confuse minds. You see how utterly impossible for this thing to be, that the world is all right observing Sunday, and God’s remnant people are all wrong. This theory of the day line would make all our history for the past fifty-five years a complete fallacy. But we know where we stand… . (3SM, p.318, para.4)
IOW, I don’t understand the relationship of the dayline (dateline) to when and where the Sabbath begins, so with my unique authority, I declare that the day line is the work of the devil. Don’t even think about it.
But Sister, that’s not good enough!
3 Likes
Frank –
If you recall, at one time the Brethren taught that Sabbath began at 6PM on
Friday evening and went to 6 PM on Saturday evening.
Later discussion decided that Friday evening at Sunset to Saturday evening
at Sunset was the correct activity.
So seems like no matter WHERE Friday evening was in the round earth, that
would be when Sabbath began on that spot at sundown, and ended at sundown
24 hour later.
It is just that EVERY NEW DAY begins at the Int’l Dateline, and ends the same
place. And each place has its OWN Time Zone [Russia has about 7 of them].
When SDAs were in New England area, all were in the same time-zone. When
Adventism moved West, then it became a challenge. And when our 1st
missionary went to Europe that would really have caused problems with Letters
to the White Estate wanting clarification.
The chapter you quoted from was #40. Sabbath for a Round World. Reading the
whole several paragraphs gives a clearer picture of keeping Sabbath [or Sunday]
on a round World. In the very northern latitudes one WOULD need to have a
time piece, as times between a sun time and a dark time can last very long time
periods. No way to tell time by the sun.
1 Like
Also the Sistern Prophetess.
“In the tract Bates argued for beginning the Sabbath at 6 p.m. Friday, and many Sabbath keepers, including the Whites, did so for nearly ten years. Other Adventists kept it from sunrise, sunset, or midnight. In 1855 James White asked J. N. Andrews to make a study of the Bible on the subject. At a meeting in Battle Creek in November he presented his paper, which supported sunset. After the meeting, Ellen White had a vision confirming the result of his Bible study, and unity on the subject was gained” (From the White Estate)
On this most important topic, the Sabbath, it seems that God would have shown Ellen 10 years earlier when to keep the Sabbath. But, a pattern has emerged…other people decide something, then Ellen has a vision confirming what others are saying. Seems to me, God would go straight to “the Spirit of Prophecy” to give the message. Same with her writings…copied from others. 
.
4 Likes
This is one reason why I’m more convinced that the Sabbath was meant as a covenant sign for Israel as the people of God. It was tied to their identity, and the land. Once Gentiles under the new covenant were admitted as Gentiles into the people of God, receiving the Spirit as the seal of belonging, and the gospel went to the world, this was no longer a binding requirement. The covenant arrangement had reached its goal, and the rest that the sabbath pointed to was now fulfilled in Christ.
Frank
3 Likes
Would you say, Frank, that choosing to “keep” Sabbath now, post-crucifixion-Resurrection, is a lifestyle personal choice unrelated to any Biblical requirement?
2 Likes
Yes, I would agree with that. Paul speaks of the observance of days in Romans 14. While we can’t be totally sure of what he was referring to, the principle was that such things where matters of personal conviction, not to be divided over, nor to be imposed on or used to condemn others.
A similar idea is found in Colossians 2, where he names the observance of sabbath and Jewish holy times outright, as matters that the believing community should not let others judge them over. They were a shadow of things to come… but the reality is Christ.
Thanks…
Frank
1 Like
The real reason that we keep the sabbath starting at sundown is because we blindly follow the Jews tradition.
“Ah, no,” someone says. “We start the weekly Sabbath at sundown because the Bible says to.”
BUT, the Bible doesn’t say to, except ON THE NINTH DAY OF THE SEVENTH MONTH. AT EVEN, FROM EVEN TO EVEN, YE SHALL KEEP YOUR SABBATH. (Singular.)
That’s the sabbath of the Day of Atonement, a sabbath that we have never kept.
2 Likes
So how did EGW cope when she crossed the date line several years later on her way to Australia? Or did she just ignore the transition and do what the locals did.
2 Likes
Robert –
What does one do with the speed of moving around the earth by air?
In the service I was transferred to Guam, USA. Left on Friday, crossed
the DateLine, and arrived on Sunday morning at 8 am, Guam time.
I missed Saturday altogether.
Later that day I was invited to a birthday party in the community at
one of the SDA member’s house.
The last time I traveled to the US from Australia I got two Saturdays, having left Saturday afternoon from Sydney and arriving Saturday morning in SFO.
To have a fixated view on when Sabbath starts, based on a single geographic loation over looks the obvious - the shape and movement of the earth. Even Islam makes allowances for geography during Ramadan. The fast commences at sun up where ever you are and finishes at sundown where ever you are. If you were to trael from Sydney (Aus) to Auckland (NZ), two hours time difference, during the day, your fast would end 2hrs before your friends in Sydney.
When EGW sailed to Australia, how did she know when to celebrate Sabbath at sea? The days would have been shorter due to the direction she was sailing so Sabbath would not have been 24 hrs although it would have been sunset to sunset. Also, did she ask the boat to stop on the Sabbath so the sailors didn’t have to work?
2 Likes
EGW
At least once she wrote that she switched when the Captain announced the change, usually in the early morning.
THE REAL PROBLEM: If I live just east of God’s dateline and assume I live west of it, I’ll always keep Sabbath on the wrong day. EGW said keeping the right day is necessary for salvation after Jesus opened the Ark in heaven and and the light of the Sabbath shown forth. Keeping the right day holy became a TEST, after thousands of years!
Those poor Samoans. (And poor us. We don’t know where God put His dateline, either.)
All this is because WE INSIST THAT THE SEVENTH DAY MEANS THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK. WHAT WEEK? Ancient Hebrew calendars didn’t even have weeks. As far as I can make out, the language didn’t have such a word, either.
When Jesus said “the third day”, He didn’t mean the third day of the week. When the Bible says to circumcise a new baby boy on “the eighth day”, it doesn’t mean the eighth day of the week. (Did our pioneers ever discuss the definition of “seventh day”?)
Pardon all the shouting.
5 Likes
When I worked at Laurelbrook the county line and the Time change line that
went down the center of our mountain was 2 miles away.
We were in the Eastern Time Zone, but friends who lived 2.5 miles away
were an Hour Slower than we were. And if worked in our time zone,
needed to have 2 clocks to keep in time for work. LOL.
In 2011 there was no December 30 in Samoa or Tokelau. On the 29th they were on the east of the dateline but made the decision to switched to the west so that they were aligned with their trading partners. At midnight they jumped forward to December 31. The 30 of December that year was a Friday. Legally they jumped from Thursday to Saturday. As an SD in Samoa what do you do? Worship on “Sunday” because it really is Saturday or “Saturday” because it is now Saturday? Every individual needed to make the choice based on their conscience but it is a dilemma that split the church. The majority worship on Sunday, to maintain the integrity of the seven day cycle, which dates from when EGW visited Samoa. It is also the same day that nearby American Samoa worships on, even though they are on the other side of the date line. A small group worships on the “new” Saturday.
3 Likes
Which is why one man observes a day to the Lord, and another regards every day alike to the Lord. Let each one be convinced in their own mind…and don’t divide over such disputable matters. Unfortunately, Adventism has built an entire denomination and eschatological scenario on a peripheral issue. And, this is the kind of unnecessary quandary sincere and conscientious people are placed in, as a result.
Thanks…
Frank
5 Likes
I don’t believe God had revealed her anything about the Sabbath at all. She simply lied to us. For instance in her first vision she went in to the most holy place amd asked Jesus to show her what was in the the ark, and what did she see? all sorts of fruit and no commandments. This itself proves her vision was of her imagination. Though not a sabbath keeper, she said "we had perfect right in the city. For heaven is for those who kept the law according to Revelation.
The same vision when reported later, tables of the law with a glow around the sabbath law was added in place of the fruit! Now she says, “for we kept the commandments of God” She simply added to the vision, the sabbath, after she had learned of it from Bates thus contradicting her earlier version. If God were particular about the sabbath why would he allow a non sabbath keeper in to his very presence and elect her as a prophet?
4 Likes
Agree, Christopher!
A mess! 
3 Likes