An Interjection

(Kim Green) #41

All that God desires will come to fruition with or without our help. He, of course, wants us to cooperate with Him…but God will use whomever or whatever He needs to bring about his will. God will do this with, or without, the Adventist Church.

God is Love. Whatever we can do to show this to others will reveal to them God’s grace and mercy. In the end, I believe that it will be the final test…doctrines only go so far. Yes, we do need to be the “conduits of grace to all”. What else really matters?

(Kim Green) #42

Of course! He is not stingy with love…not like we are. I believe that the Holy Spirit works through many people or things (that even have no belief in Him) to teach us lessons in grace and forbearance. When you start to believe that because you have the “Truth” you are superior in knowledge and action…we can see ego and arrogance on display. Getting rid of our “ego” is the spiritual work of a lifetime!


I am puzzled. Is not what you suggest already in place with our thirteen world divisions representing regional unions?

Fully agree with your article view that now we can choose status quo or seek reformation.

(Mark Cady, MD) #44

Beautifully said. I am seeing more of Him.


I appreciate your comments and would add only that the core of what we believe is Present Truth. We must be willing to learn new things and accept that our past ideas will always need adjustment as the Holy Spirit leads and we engage in dialog both challenging and instructive. From one height to another the joy of discovery can be had and in fellowship with one another keep ourselves honest so we do not sink into self delusion.

(Steve Mga) #46

Johnny –
Jesus agrees with you – [at least the Gospel writers who claim to quote Jesus].
“The Rain and Sun is gifted by God on the Just and the Unjust alike.”
“Jesus died for the Whole World”, just as mankind in all four corners of the earth was
at that time, all mankind from the time of Cain and Abel, all mankind from the cross
to our present time – no matter which “jungle” they are hiding in – Amazon or Concrete.
God graced ALL mankind with Love and Understanding.

(Mark Cady, MD) #47

Wow David. I am reminded that so much we (I) seem to call “true” is so often quite relative. Funny how the Holy Spirit has appeared to know the same of us all along. I should confess that I am speaking of my experience only.

Yet this approach seems to be the very mission of Christ himself. He took simple(?) fisherman from their humble(?) beginnings and launched a global mission. Truths that are both absolute and yet relative too.

My journey from “lost” to “saved” happened in an instant. The moment His heart beat for the final time and the moment it beat once again. That was truth. Absolute truth (the noun, the verb, the adjective).

The relativity of that moment lives within my human heart. It has grown slowly at first in my mind. In His mind it was fully formed before the worlds were known.

And the absolute nature of my salvation was forever relative to my human experience. That is, until I realized how very lost I really was. Then it not only became true, it became real (yes, bothered me).

At once I knew salvation, though I had known it all along. And now I know I am saved, absolutely. It is my identity. Can I be lost? Of course. A truth that is real both in absolute and relative terms.

(Elmer Cupino) #48

To the contrary.

Had he undergone psychological evaluation (the likes of Dr. Tichy @GeorgeTichy) and completed a personality inventory, his scores would have raised some concerns. For instance, his collection of “vintage cars” would have indicated the possibility of hoarding, which has been associated with perfectionism and obsessive compulsive symptoms among college students and community volunteers. Syndromes such as these can also be indicative of personality disorders one in particular known as obsessive compulsive personality disorder where the person is preoccupied with details and rules, is overconscientious, scrupulous and inflexible about matters of morality, ethics and values, and shows significant rigidity and stubbornness among others. How many of these traits does our great leader TW have and should have caused concerns had candidates for GC presidency been required to undergo psychological evaluation as part of vetting?

The fundamental defect lies not on individuals who are chosen to be officers but on how individuals are chosen. Therein lies the devil.

(Saffert) #49

What should/could we laypeople do to avert organizational catholization?

Never laughed so hard :rofl: as when Lothar included himself with the “we laypeople”. This man has been pulling strings in the German SDA clergy so hard that his hands are still all blisters.
Just scroll down to where it says:
Lothar E. Träder, Ph.D., is a retired pastor, teacher and former rector of Marienhöhe, an Adventist boarding school in Darmstadt - which used to be the West-German preacher seminary before the reunification of Germany. He has educated so many of the current German leaders that it is hard to tell whom he has not.

(Saffert) #50

May I offer that the foremost spokesman of the current opposition is lost in wrong analysis which, therefore, cannot possibly yield any solution!
There is an alternative bringing back some sanity.

(Spectrumbot) #51

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