I am writing to thank you and fellow denominational leaders for preserving ambiguity in the proposed revision to Fundamental Belief #6 (FB6). As a Seventh-day Adventist scientist who rejects the fundamentalist view of a literal, six-day creation of our world and life upon it approximately 6000 years ago, followed by a world-wide flood that produced the geologic column and earth’s major geographical features as we find them today, I was initially concerned about the proposed revision (“clarification”) of FB6. However, having read what was voted at the recent Annual Council meeting, I am relieved that the church—while adding some unfortunate extra-biblical language with which I disagree—has at least retained ambiguity in one of the most critical areas, thereby supporting those Adventists who believe life has existed and developed on this planet for billions of years.
Great letter.
The last paragraph reiterates what I have been saying for a long time, that Ted Wilson’s poor leadership skills are taking our church backwards in time since day one of his presidency.
Presumably this is written tongue-in-cheek as the reporting on the Annual Council deliberations on FB6 made it clear they were referring to 6,000 years. I do think there is a significant segment of Adventism that does not subscribe to the 6,000 year theory and Ted Wilson has made it clear that this group are not Adventists in his eyes, and soon he hopes to make this the official position of the church. This purging and marginalization is reminiscent of Mao’s cultural revolution and if it goes ahead, will lead to the church being even more exclusive - how does that promote the spreading of the gospel? It seems that those who do not subscribe to a 6,00 year view have the following options:
Keep our views quiet, or rationalize through semantics how we can justify ‘recent’ to mean millions of years
Make our voices heard before GC session, make it clear we are numerous and that this is also our church and we will not be marginalized.
Surely there is room in this church for some diversity and freedom of thought? Or have members been indoctrinated through force-feeding of Sabbath school lessons for so long that we can no longer accept the possibility of different perspectives within our church? It is time for those who do not agree with the exclusivist agenda to take a stand and be heard!
(Dear new commenter: please change your user name to something else. There is a frequent commenter around here named “hopeful” and your postings will become confused with theirs. As this is just the beginning of your comments (if you decide to stay, that is), then changing will not be a problem. - webEd)
There’s no need for Mrs. White in order to support a 6,000 year timeframe from creation to present. That’s all in the Bible itself. Mrs. White did not need Bishop Ussher, for she had the Bible alone upon which to base her view, or, better yet, divine revelation. We have the advantage of both the Bible and Ellen White agreeing on this figure. None need misunderstand on this point.
I am one of them that still believe that creation of humans it still around 6000 years old. However, I do believe that “the earth” - matter, can be billions or even trillions of years old. The Bible did say “without form” Could someone till me in which ways scientists “prove” that humans existence is in the millions of years. What method? Is that method subjects or is the “scientific” method still subject to human reasoning? Help me someone body? barringotnbrennen@gmail.com
Pago, the problem is that you have not listened carefully enough to be aware of what is actually being said. The question is NOT “did Noah live through the flood?”, but rather, “what kind of flood did Noah live through?”
There is ample evidence of serious floods, that would have seemed to have “covered the whole world” to those living through them. The best resource for examining the evidence for those is the book by David Montgomery, The Rocks Don’t Lie. http://www.amazon.com/The-Rocks-Dont-Lie-Investigates/dp/0393346242
Yes, the view that Adventist and other Conservative Christians are presently advocating, does indeed recognize… and celebrate… The God of scripture as Creator, Sustainer, and Redeemer of all.
Yes, it also recognizes the progression of life forms on the earth from simple to complex, and the interconnectedness of all life forms, as the evidence… from the fossil record, from continued speciation, and from dna sequencing as well as other evidences that can be naturally observed… indicates.
Along with this, however, it recognizes the Presence of God in EVERY “natural process”… that is, God working THROUGH natural processes, rather than the Deistic concept of a God who started things running and the went away to let them run by themselves.
If you have serious questions and want serious and detailed answers, the best place to find them is at the BioLogos website, where there are resources galore that will give you an excellent look at not only the broad principles under which we operate, but also a look at the varieties of beliefs at the “details” level that all fit under this same umbrella. http://biologos.org/
Don’t expect to agree with every detail here… but also, don’t allow what seems initially like a “show-stopper” statement to keep you from investigating fully.
Not only the “scientific method” depends on “human reasoning”, but also Biblical interpretation and application depends on the very same “human reasoning”. It is well to remember that there it is God Himself who gave us the reasoning ability that we call “human reasoning”. As for your questions about the scientific methods that are used… the Biologos site that I mentioned is the simplest place to find the answers to all of those… and likely to many that you haven’t enough information to have yet thought of.
(Good to see you here, Barrington… “help” is available. But no one can really give it to you… you’ll have to dig for it yourself. Enjoy the search! Bille)
the primary issue is --Did God created man in His image after His likeness and did man reject that state expecting a higher. Only to fall from Grace? The when is immaterial. Was the Cross just a Jewish/Roman mistake? Finally how does theistic evolution differ from LGT? Tom Z
If anyone wants a great read on the history of the persons who were interested in the history of the world beginning with Bishop Ussher and his 4004 b.c. dates up to the present time and including Seventh day Adventists and Price, this is a good book to read.
The History of the World by Martin Rudwick. Came out in 2014.
This IS NOT about Evolution. This is only about the search for the History of The World.
The book illustrates the FACT that the desire to know the History of the Earth began in Europe with Clergy who enjoyed science as a hobby. That is how Ussher and others attempted to come up with a chronology of bible dates. Ussher won with 4004, other had 3000s and in various editions of bibles dates were added for events in the margins. This got other Europeans interested in what they saw in the landscapes around them and as rock collectors searching for minerals. Finding rocks "out of place."
Alll this was taking place in Scholastic Europe. America at that time was rural, agricultural, and off the grid as far as keeping up with what was happening in Europe. So it was natural that the ONLY thing Americans knew about was Ussher’s 4004 b.c. as the margins of their Bibles said so.
Men of Science in Europe 1st began writing in Latin to each other. Later in French, some in English and German. Few Americans were into Latin and French during the 1700s, 1800s. Most of our Early SDAs were farmers, or business men. During that time in the US few went past 8th grade and few had any books in their home library. Maybe McGuffy’s Reader. So we have to be careful about where we place our early leaders in the 6000 year declaration of the age of the earth. It wasnt on their Radar Screen.
The theme of Scripture is simple- IN the Beginning, God; In the history of man, God; in Eternity , God. The invitation is to join God in Eternity thought Christ our Lord. In the mean time there are certain circadian rhythms for healthily living. Tom Z
Wherein do you believe they disagree? I have carefully studied the matter, and I have not found any disagreement.
The Bible gives us plenty of times, prophecies, and ages upon which to base our understanding of this world’s chronology. Put together, the figure stands very near to 6,000 years from creation to present. Which is the figure that Ellen White gives.
This is pure satire and sarcasm. Is it a Sevvy stuff?
It is like telling to a robber: "Thank you, Mr. Thief, for stealing from me only 95 € instead of 100 €. Oh you have been so very kind, you could have stolen all 100 €."
Please don’t tease Elder Wilson with such stuff. He will put 6000 years into FB6.
