For a start, got blacklisted for a month. The original statement by Harrpa was "gay people can become heterosexuals with God’s help which I turned around by similar logic that it wasn’t about heterosexual.
The fuller question would read, “Why does the homosexual have to become heterosexual?” Did you miss that query when you inadvertently turned it around and said, “Becoming homosexual?”
For me, the question under discussion at that time wasn’t about one or the other. That is what I said, and i that context. It wasn’t some clinical statement. Interestingly, thought, now that its been brought up, some so wrapped in culture views on this, that when one becomes a Christian they can by God grace, stop doing the wrong in one, but cannot the other? If the belief is that one cannot change, but the other can, that sounds one sided.
I know some are so wrapped in the psycho analysis theories of atheists and humanists, many who do not have Christian perspectives on human psychology, that they follow any, and all, of the “theories” these teach they are fact. Poor G.
Something I have witnessed several times now, that whenever subjects such as homosexual behavior is discussed, and ultimately the topic comes to the area of how wrong it is, and needs to be overcome just as other sins have to be overcome, some who don’t believe in overcoming, try to draw the attention away toward other problems of a sexual nature, ( and here’s the spoiler - they want you to focus on what OTHER great sinners are doing) so theirs cannot be seen in its true light. They forget that this tactic is as old as Adam and Eve’s first sin. You know, its always some else’s fault. Those heterosexual degenerates doing what they do. And let’s face it, of course there are many areas in this that are true. But these are brought into the picture to “drown out” the glaring problem in homosexuality. Nothing is sorted by bringing them up as a sort of blind to cover our own sins.
I have trouble picturing a sinner, being truly sorry for his sins who at the foot of the cross (figuratively speaking) asking for forgiveness, but stops and says, but Jesus you ought to have a gander that those others, they are really bad. How far would Jesus regard the sincerity of such a forgiveness? What value in seeking to minimize our own wrongs, but drawing attention to others wrongs? It only serves to cement the wrongdoer in their own sin by comforting the conscience with the “I’m not so bad syndrome.”
I communicated with one person with a “ministry” helping homosexual persons. In several articles by this person and others put on the internet in this “ministry” we had this principle in action time and again. I tried to sum up the content of the site, but wasn’t well received. If I can give it briefly here, you might see why. “Perhaps your homosexual behavior is not good, but then there are those heterosexuals who do such terrible things, and these heterosexual sins were listed attempting to show the homosexual behavior is not so bad.”
In the “ministry” there was no attempt at saying, we all need to change, to conform our will to God’s will, to acknowledge our human depravity and fall upon Jesus for forgiveness, and claim His promise that He will be with us when we are tempted so that He can and will help us in the life of new Christian in which Paul says " if any man be in Christ, *he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 COR 5:17. It needs to start with me, and This process never stops until probation closes.
Self abuse is a term used in the SOP to describe masturbation. "The Problems of Self-abuse.–Some who make a high profession do not understand the sin of self-abuse and its sure results. Long-established habit has blinded their understanding. They do not realize the exceeding sinfulness of this degrading sin. CG 441.1. Some in recent decades laughed at the warnings in the SOP regarding this. I think the terms she used were risk of going mad. It wasn’t until some decades ago also, that we found out the physics of this situation regarding large Zinc losses in such a regular indulgence. And what function does Zinc play in the brain?
Something for you to research. But again this only dealt with the mechanics of the situation. The psychological aspects of it hinge around sex being an intended shared experience of two loving person, and not the continual self-satisfaction of me alone aspect. Although you are guarded in your reply, it appears you do know what it means, and I was only addressing you. Perhaps I too am antiquated, but I prefer in print that we should use terms that are not vulgar or crude.
If I can respond to your other comment in reply to mine that “if only everyone could agree upon what Scripture is saying.” In a “type” of the sincere Christians of the last days, preparing for the latter rain outpouring, we should take note of the upper room experience. The account in Acts 1 and 2 tells us they were of one accord, and post script to that we read in Acts 17:11 that the noble in the church at Thessalonica searched the Scripture daily to see if those things were so. In other words, they weren’t puffed up with their own importance, but humble and willing to learn from the Scripture the true path and Godly program from God Himself. I have trouble picturing one of that number saying, "let me show you what the Scripture says that will prove my theory.
Try as I might, I see little of this upper room experience in the NAD leadership. In Jackson’s latest tirade, he demonstrates so little of this New Testament spirit, that unless he repents, the church might have to lose him from a position of authority at the least. So on and off, exhibiting a spirit of rancor one moment, and another moment later, belittling the brethren from overseas who he accords little mental equivalence to his own, and condescendingly says “we respect them” but goes on to do just the opposite. “They wouldn’t be able to understand our situation here.”
So yeah (responding to your phrase), you are right, looking at the entire debacle from an entirely human perspective, there will be little agreement. But God can and will change those who are willing to be made willing to have His character develop within. What love will be between the brethren, what union of understanding in the Scriptures that will follow.
Your question “why do we think Adventism will escape the same?” is not easy to respond to this these days. When we had the Armstrong World Wide Church of God fold on the Sabbath, we saw the majority just change with the leadership.
And in our case, we have had agitation after agitation regarding various points of our faith for the last sixty to seventy years, but instead of the majority following the cunningly devised fables of popular “theologians,” we have largely remained faithful to Adventist’s biblical doctrines. What has been the difference? To a minor degree it is our deeper understanding of Scripture; but the larger part has been God’s gift to us in the Spirit Of Prophecy. Except for those who run with every popular wind of doctrine, it is hard for anyone introducing error to bring out their views without someone comparing what he/she says to the SOP message in the same area.
Instead of some nowadays being thankful for that, they tend to take their hatred out on the SOP. If you’ve heard it like I have, it goes something like this: “I love the Spirit of Prophecy, but you place too much emphasis on that little old lady who had such low education (like I have with my Phd doctorate is inferred in that statement), you really shouldn’t make her into a god, or replace the Bible with her writings.” There are several more, but that will do. All an exaggeration intended to convey a lie.
When it comes to WO and LGBTI+ issues, if we all loved the Bible as we ought, these issues would be so minor they would never get a foothold. The answer is not in the issue, but in the many who have been misled by the advocates for these issues. They hold the answer in their hands, its right there in front of them. By the same token we do tend to forget these troubled times are predicted by the very SOP writings they disregard, and some hate. That’s a kind of irony. I agree with half of your statement: “it isn’t about intellect or spiritual insights.” I agree with your though about intellect from a purely human standpoint.
The last part (or spiritual insights) has some concerns because the following verse has been demonstrated time and again in the lives and understanding of the Bible by numerous Bible students through the ages, including several SDA scholars up to our day: “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” John 7:17. Countless thousands or millions also who have not been drawn to our attention would be in that number.
One of the key features of knowing God’s will for us is to be willing ourselves to follow Him implicitly. The following is one part of a satire feature I recently came across. I’ve shortened it to save space, but I feel it has an object lesson in itself. It goes like this:
"It’s kind of an open secret that most Christians haven’t read the Bible because most people have literally no idea what the Bible actually says. And the truth is, your church is desperate to keep it that way. Your pastor doesn’t want you to read the Bible, because if you did you’d realize it’s full of verses that are obviously false and also completely contradict modern values, which are obviously the correct values, because they’re the modern ones. Well, here is just one of the ten . . .
The verse: “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”
What your pastor doesn’t want you to know about it: Your pastor wants you to believe that God is all-powerful, but even the Bible clearly says, “God will do nothing.” True, yes, but devastating for Christianity.
So, checkmate, Holy Rollers. You all are just lucky someone was here to read the Bible for you and tell you what to think about it before your church was able to brainwash you. As the saying goes, the #truth has set you free.
Wish I could remember where I read that.
WO advocates use the Bible in the same manner as this satirist.