Andrews University Prof Contract Ends After Conversion to Islam

Yes, I do Andreas, and I’ve even stated, here, that I would have rather lived in Spain during that period than under Roman/Christian rule.

But my whole point was that as soon as someone brings up the crusades, then all conversation tends to cease. The radicals seem to be given a pass.


Birder … I still remember a female church member who needed special permission to obtain a driver’s license and prove the need for such an exception (that was Germany in the 20s of the last century - and not church related- , not Saudi-Arabia). No, Adventist women are not required to wear a Hijab, but go to any Russian Adventist church and you will find most women wear a headscarf in church. And I am sure you are old enough to remember that even in American churches there was a lot of discussion on women wearing trousers in church (pants for Americans). Finally, a quick look at Student Manuals of Adventist institutions before the 70s (i.e. not hundred of years ago) will inform you of clear regulations about male/female behaviour.

We sometimes tend to forget our own rigidities that are far more recent… Comparisons don’t equate, they find analogies and similarities.


I feel it is their right of speech. The facts speak for themselves. Truth is freedom!

Okay, Tony, I see where you are coming from. I am not quite as scared as you that this would end conversation, as there is enough recent history to make the point - in any direction. The thought that terrorism, violence, atrocities would be “given a pass” quite honestly never occurred to me. But I see how any comparison can be misunderstood as relativizing - which isn’t my intention. My intention was differentiation - and, yes indeed, pointing at dangers of ideologies and human nature (including my own).


Do you even care that your comment would bring 0 people to the table?

And I’m sure after being told that your in a “cult,” the first thing you felt was “freedom.”

Feelings are not my point such as what they seem to be to you. Individuals have a right to the freedom of speech and I sense it as their opinion. I seek facts and truths and that does bring searching people to the table.

By telling people their in a “cult”?

Tell me, then, if you know: how Islam is a “cult”?

I am logging off for the night. So I will be looking forward to seeing the “facts” and “truth,” tomorrow.

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Yes, I see this as an Adventist educational institution problem. This is not an open and free higher learning establishment. Therefore it makes sense from that point of view to limit diversity.

If this was a mainstream University, I would agree with most of the arguments.

Knowing the built in limitations of educational endeavour in Adventist Universities, I wonder why anyone would pay to go there.


Really now? You can’t look up a definition? (A little more courtesy, please. - webEd)
Ok, I will link how Islam and Muslim religions are cultic.

Of course we could go back in history to point out hypocrisy. However, in the West we should be elevating backward ideologies and pulling them into the ‘light’ with the progress we have made '. We shouldn’t bring ourselves down to their level.


You got me just before I was about to log off. This should be a very quick response. Lets see, the 5 reasons why Islam is a cult, are:

  1. A Muslim who quits Islam has to worry about being killed by another Muslim.
    (Ever heard of the Inquisition?)

  2. Muslims are encouraged to commit violence in the name of Islam.
    (And Christianity didnt once upon a time?)

  3. Islam does not allow criticism or change.
    (As was the same with Christianity)

  4. Muslim theology teaches hatred of non-Muslims.
    (Yeah, its not like Christians ever taught this)

  5. Islam matches the “Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups” according to the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA).

Lets look at the first dot point for now:

  • The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

Interesting, the same thing could be said about Christians towards Christ.



Robert, you are right on the money.

I don’t understand why so many people are defending the right of religious freedom for the Muslims based of the fact that “we want it for us, so they deserve it too.” Why are those people pretending not to know that the Muslims want to convert the whole world by force, and kill all “infidels?” Who doesn’t know they want to impose sharia law? Who doesn’t know that they have large number of children aiming to make their population the majority in some countries like France?

All this pretending is just încomprehensible. The situation is evident. And my conclusion is similar to yours, that freedom of religion for Islam should be based not on the liberty principle only, but on their behavior toward the society thay live in. Which is, by the way, the society we live in as well. Why should they have the right to alter our society?

ISIS should stop killing people and committing atrocities, and that state they conquered should be given to them. Thus every Muslim in the world would have a country to move to and have their laws and practices as they will. All Muslims should move to that place and enjoy the prosperity of the land…

I better stop right here, since I may have (literally and realistical) already jeopardized my life for expressing any of my opinions about the Muslims. This is the kind of freedom we have to be afraid of!


I smell SA in this entire affair… The presidents of GC universities are on the line. Those words 'Dire Consequences" are a gun shot over the brow of every head of academia. As a Seventh day Adventist, I taught at a Jesuit university for 8 Years. I didn’t pass out Great Controversy on campus, but all knew my affiliation and merely commented–“You observe Lent year around.” I think Spectrum should publish the university’s side of the story… It seems to me the lady was more aggressive in promoting her beliefs, than the story reveals. I have a high regard for the integrity of the President. Tom Z


Again, ISIL/ISIS (DAESH) are not Islamic. They have nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.


I see you point addressed to @robert_sonter but the fact that Christians committed atrocities in the past should bot be a pass for the Muslims to do the same in our age. If they want to live under all those laws of theirs, and to abide by sharia law, and do whatever they want, they can always move to Iran or to the ISIS territory and be happy religious people there. But they won’t do that, because it is obvious that they are on a worldwide mission. And it’s not based on a peaceful preaching of their “religion of peace.”


Andreas, this is news to me… I honestly thought that you always agreed with me!!! How could I be so mistaken? … :laughing:

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I used to think Islam was oppressive toward women. I even wrote so in several publications. I am honest enough to admit that I am wrong. As I mentioned in my previous comments, all my 11 siblings are Muslims. Two of my sisters were the Hijab. None of my sisters are oppressed…There are oppressed women in every religion. If you really read and understand the Koran and the Hadith, you will find out that women are highly respected in Islam. There are a couple of groups that are misrepresenting Islam. You must carefully choose your sources when you are learning about Islam. I am a firm believer that a person should not rely on a bible study or the media, a person must analyze what he/she are reading or listening to.


It seems to me that unless Andrews wished to change its hiring policies and the composition of its faculty and staff over time, it made the proper decision – not only for the institution but also for all the other job candidates past and future who have been or will be set aside because of their non-affiliation . As an Adventist, I could encounter the same sort of limitations at a Baptist, Christian Reformed or other denominationally-affiliated university. This is not an uncommon practice in such institutions, and it is their right. Ms. Walton either chose to ignore that or was sadly uninformed as she moved forward in her decision-making. Claiming to profess two very different faiths simultaneously seems disingenuous to me and may speak to her overall honesty with herself and others in this process.


May the peace and blessings of our most merciful and most gracious Creator be upon all of you… I must say, may God give us all guidance and authentic love for those we judge so readily. I would feel afraid to send my children to SDA schools after reading your comments (even though all my children have attended SDA schools in the past and have been blessed by those who do not hold the same bias that is obvious in many of these comments and are open to inter-faith dialogue and understanding). The complete anti-Islamic sentiment and simple ignorance about Islam is evident in many of these comments… for this, I am sad for all our children who must suffer from labeling my children as the “other”, rather than the “brother”. This is exactly why I did not feel comfortable attending many of the churches in the area when I came back to AU… because the underlying tone is "anti-Islamic"and at the very least “extremely culturally insensitive and misinformed”… how can I let my children sit and listen to a sermon when someone says blanket statements that are anti-Muslim when my children are Muslim? My son, who attends SDA school, said, "Mom, if they say ‘Jesus loves everyone (which we believe as Muslims), why do they hate Muslims so much’? As a researcher who holds “validity and reliability” to a high standard, one must first seek knowledge from the source (which does not include any non-Muslim books, media propaganda, etc) with prayerful insight and guidance from God (the same God Christians and Jews serve). My own life, which has been spent working for the vulnerable and oppressed and women’s rights worldwide testifies to the fact that Islam is NOT an oppressive religion to women. In fact, that was one of the convincing reasons for my reversion to Islam… I saw more rights in Islam that were given 1400 years ago than from the SDA church. we have Catholics, Methodists, Jews and then we have atheists on campus that are faculty members and are afraid to say they are something “other than SDA”… Furthermore, there is a woman faculty who has just gotten the Star of David tattoo on her leg and showed everyone… no one asked her if she changed her religion… Andrews University actively recruits Muslim students… If you are actively recruiting Muslim students and taking their “tax/tuition” money, but never allowing them to have “faculty status” (citizenship/passport), you have a double standard that speaks to “second class citizenship status of Muslim students on campus”. If you want to enforce a policy, it should be enforced consistently… Furthermore, a minority on campus (Muslims clearly fall into this category at AU) must have an advocate for them to truly be fairly represented in any academic or other factor. I have spoken to Muslim students on campus and the MLS Department has a beautiful relationship with Muslim students, but unfortunately there are several students who feel very discriminated against and are deeply dissatisfied with how the religion of Islam is portrayed on campus…And in their (the earlier prophets) footsteps We sent Jesus the son o Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him, a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.” Qur’an:5:46 The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “He will not enter Paradise whose neighbour is not secure from his wrongful conduct.” Muslim:15 "We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you (Jews, Christians and Muslims). Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.” (Quran- Surat al-Ma’ida, 48). “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort justice or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.” (Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 135- Quran) Peace to all of you… remember, peace begins at “home”… you are supposed to be the leaders of showing the love of Jesus to all people, without discrimination, bias or prejudice. I am certain that is exactly what Jesus would do.



Thank you for your wonderful reply. Many Muslims told me that “You Must be a Jew and a Christian before you can be a Muslim.”