Are Other Worlds Watching Us? Ellen White and Earthly Evil

Nobody paints evil like Fyodor Dostoevsky. This may be overstating the case considering that evil, like the artists who attempt to portray its horrors, is vast and multifaceted. So, I concede the likelihood that there might be an artist out there who “does evil” differently, or even better than Dostoevsky. 

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

Thank you for the injection of sanity into a lingering narrative that makes no sense but is still hanging around in some form. Let’s just say, this may be another perspective of the issues at Glacier View.


This essay raises such a big question but then provides no answer. If God is God then those who believe in a Diety don’t really have much claim to influence how or why such a being would do anything. By claiming not to be able to believe in such a God, one eventually has to deconstruct God and reform a little “god” that one is willing to live with. Delightfully subversive but woefully incomplete. The author should simply conclude by assembling whatever “godly attributes” are in keeping with their vision of the ideal of god and recast a golden calf that they can then bow down and worship.


Easy answer.

Because the omnipotent, all-knowing and all-loving ever-present god described in the Bible does not exist.

Instead, and as we read in Genesis Chapter One, the creator of this cosmos resembles his incomplete, ambiguous, ambivalent, ever changing creation and creatures, each and all of which are constantly evolving toward some uncharted supposedly better destination, and ideal state of being, which neither he, she nor they will likely recognize as such; will only ever see as another waypoint along the way to who knows where.

Is this scenario, our creator doesn’t have a POE solution anymore than does any of his creatures. Or at least not yet. Instead, the best any of them can say is “We’re working on ii.”, doubting all the while that evil can be totally eradicated, as none of them (including the SDA brain thrust) have found a way to do so in their own lives and minds.


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But the character of this God has to stay true to itself throughout the various extrapolations in the scriptures that purports “that God so loved the world…”. He can’t be an all loving GOD who wants us to have an abundant life, and the fulfillment of our prayers, while the earth is put through endless pain and injustice - as GOD .waits for the perfecting of the “enlightened” humans - just to prove a point to the unfallen “watchers” that HE is just.

If the “unfallen watchers” still need proof, they’re not unfallen.

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You’re probably right. Various cultures define GOD in their culturally acceptable terms. But, the question remains, why do all these different versions of GOD exist? Why has there always been a need to have GOD? Why can’t humans just accept their fate as does the rest of nature - you find yourself here, and you strive for survival and then you die. Why do humans need a reason for all this? Why do we have the ability to ask “WHY”?


“Neither does it serve any moral purpose to construct a god who wakes up the dead to kill them a second time. Humans may do or imagine these horrors, but a moral God would stoop too low in taking part in such appalling behavior. Whoever is watching this carnage, angels or other beings, should have had their fill of this horrific spectacle long before now. In any case, we should not offer such a defense for the problem of evil.”

There are at least 3 points that I think you might want to incorporate into your piece.

  1. God cannot be absolved from knowing what Lucifer had this brewing in his heart. After all, Lucifer was right next to God’s throne. If God knows what’s in your heart and mine, which most all of us accept, then, how could He not know what was happening to Lucifer at the onset?

  2. Second issue is of all the places in the universe, and there are enough to have 40 or 50 zeros behind the number, why did he have to cast Satan and his minions here? Why did we deserve this? How did we become the universes Ginny pig?

  3. The biggest question of all should be, why is it fair that we should be born with what many consider original sin when none of us asked to be born, or to take part in this great universal experiment? No one who has ever lived decided ahead of their birth that they wanted to be a part of this. We were never given a choice, yet, supposedly, if we don’t behave, we will be tortured unmercifully. Does that seem fair to any of you? Many people I have asked, Adventists included, said that they would wish that they never had been born than go through this. How does that sit with any of you? This is a legitimate question that deserves a reasonable explanation.

That is why I have to believe in a God who is far more merciful than portrayed in some of those horrible verses in Revelations. There are only a few people that I feel are worthy of that kind of torture. Hitler comes to mind. I have often felt that it was a shame that he was able to take his own life before the allies got to him. I would like to have seen him tortured. There are a couple others, but I think most of us would put him at the top of the list. But that list is very small.

One other question, what are Christians going to do if we find solid evidence that life also existed on Mars or some other place? What will that do to your faith?


Good news first.

I know an easy answer to all “why” questions.

The bad news?

I also know that response cannot be put into words nor expressed using language.


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What response does the author give for the existence and continuation of evil and suffering?

To me all questions are answered at the cross. Any God that would die for us cannot be indifferent to any of our suffering. I don’t know why sin has gone on this long but I trust God. He remains all powerful and all loving.

And we need to remember not a single human needs to be destroyed in hell. The lake of fire is for the devil and his angels. Whoever goes there, goes by choice.

Last point, God punishing a sinner is not cruel, He punished His Son to spare us all punishment, so those who reject that solution are choosing to suffer rather then accept Jesus’ forgiveness.

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Rev 14:9-11 seems to be a quotation from the very human and poetic destruction of Edom described in Isaiah 34. Care should, therefore, be exercised in attributing the language of Revelation directly to God. Imperial Rome’s persecution of Christians would also influence John’s choice of OT texts and should be taken into consideration too. People whose brothers and sisters are being decapitated (Rev 20:4) do not usually write in polite prose.
For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
a year of vindication for Zion’s cause.
9 And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch
and her soil into sulfur;
her land shall become burning pitch.
10 Night and day it shall not be quenched;
its smoke shall go up forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
no one shall pass through it forever and ever.
(Isa 34:8–10).



So if a train leaves Chicago heading east at 60 MPH….:wink:

The point is that Jesus’ death left us with lots of unanswered questions and his demise would be as pointless as yours and mine will be if we don’t understand what he did and said while he was alive and learn what we can from that.

And as far as I can tell, to be obsessed with death, sin, god’s supposedly judgmental nature, etc., is the exact opposite of that good news.

I also do not get some Christian’s obsession with Paul or any of the other people who claimed to be speaking for Jesus after he died.

Sure, Paul says he was inspired.

I’m just not convinced it was Jesus doing the inspiration given that so much of what Paul says seems picky and opaque; “through a glass darkly” by his own admission instead of “Love your neighbor.” kind, or “emulate the flowers” simple.

And please don’t say (again) that we have to take all of the Bible or none of it given that its been repeatedly demonstrated that no one, including you, can or ever could do that.

But some people say that without Paul, there would be no Christianity.

Which is probably true.

I’m just not convinced that’s necessarily a bad thing.



We had to crawl before we were able to walk. In fact, therapy for kids with reading problems, is to get them to crawl to teach them coordination. It seems to help in eye and hand coordination, and in turn, the brain seems to need that to learn to read words. Similarly, we need spiritual building blocks in order to take the “road less travelled” making our own meaningful relationships to those primitive ideas. We have to start somewhere.

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As long as we don’t end there and spend life crawling!


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Another analogy (I like analogies - can you tell) -

The kids didn’t crawl because the mom’s put them in play pens for “safety and control”; and the totts pulled themselves up on their feet prematurely and ended up bowlegged and unable to read. :astonished:

My questions I have used myself. God’s answer to me was He chose something I had no part in, He chose to send Jesus, and that leaves me with a choice: stay in Adam One, my original birth, or choose Adam Two, God’s choice for me. It has been the only answer I can find thus far to the questions you and others raised.

I raised these questions in the context of the Investigative Judgment charging God unfair in judging me who had no choice to be born. But the answer comes out the same: God chose something for me without my consent, to give me life.

But as to the length of the POE, I am not sure there is any satisfactory answer save “God is not willing that any perish” and for one sinner that repents bringing great joy in God. There is much more we can’t fathom than what we can.

You present very valid concerns regarding what may be pervasive interpretations of the 7th Day Adventist Church, Matthew. Alternative interpretations have been shared by Adventist thinkers, which may be worthy of consideration:

Investigative (or Pre-Judgment Perspectives): God doesn’t need to decide who is safe to have around forever. He knows everything that’s taking place in our hearts at all times. An onlooking universe (if you’re willing to consider it has concerns about future neighbors) needs to understand. I suspect there are many “thieves on the cross” who may have seen the light about God’s love on the day of their death, providing no evidence of a changed life. From what I’ve seen in my short life of 70 years, I have no doubt there are many figurative "Uncle Bills"who appeared so very sweet and godly, but in reality used that as a cloak for evil. God discusses any questions about his diagnoses with his children because His government is one of open transparency. The universe trusts God, but He insists on preventing any potential distrust, honoring the very valid questions of His children.

Evil Implodes Upon Itself: A PUC professor, Jean Sheldon, once said she could finally understand why God didn’t let the assassination of Hitler take place. The reason that helped her: Both the universe as well as man need to see that evil implodes upon itself. Sin pays its wages - death - Romans 6.23. In Revelation 20, people are tormented, but it does not say this is done by God and the angels. That would be out of harmony with God’s insistence that cruelty must never be repaid with cruelty. Sigve Tonstad offers the perspective that God and the angels are “witnesses - horrified witnesses” - to the suffering that evil people bring down their own heads. - Rev. 17.16-17 (Rev. 14.17-20 may well correlate to this experience).

God’s Anger Over Evil: God blithely looking on while atrocities happen may be a perspective presented by many Adventists, but it is most certainly not in harmony with scripture: “God is angry with the wicked every day.” Psalm 7.11, “I came to hate you there.” - Hosea 9.15. God says He is our father. If an earthly father saw one of his children treating another one of his children with cruelty, I can see how his heart, like God’s, would cry out “But how can I give you up?. . . I was the one who taught you how to walk.” (Hosea 11:3, 8). Yet God hates cruelty, and it would be futile for him strive to try to rescue heart-hardened, insane rebels forever. God is very clear that He will “give people up” because he cannot sanction evil. He stops protecting them and gives them over the to the natural consequences of their own actions, which is death. (Romans 1, Deuteronomy 32.30 - The Song of Moses, which Revelation 15.3 says is also the Song of the Lamb).

There have been several times during my 70 years when I thought it might be better I was never born because of suffering I’ve experienced. But God has promised to make all of this up to us. I’m sure he’s capable of doing that. I have seen His hand constantly helping me through the quagmire of this life, and so will continue to trust Him.

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Just say’n…A God that needs the death of millions to prove His is correct??? Really??? Christianity claims God created all of this and yet he needs violence to prove He could do it??? Sounds like human thinking to me!!!


The answer about the wickedness in the world isn’t’ answered by God allowing things to play out to show what sin does. The murder of Able would have been enough. Unfallen worlds are not stupid. The horror show playing out on planet earth isn’t proving anything to anyone. We don’t have an adequate answer to it. But God being in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself reveals a Creator in the mud with us. We don’t have an answer, but we do have a promise.

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As I mentioned above, I do have an answer.

And in an effort not to seem overly arrogant, I think everyone does.

The reality, however, is that while the answer is the same for everyone, it is always seen from different perspectives that only come in flashes which cannot be put into words anymore than a hot oven can be used to store ice cream.

I do think you’re right, though, about being reconciled with our creator.

We-god and man are one-so anything that happens is a game we’re playing together and reality, including the POE, is probably just an open-ended trick that god is pulling on us, i.e., her-, him- or ItSelf, perhaps for no reason other than there’s nothing else for any of us to do.

So while the game seems deadly serious to us, it probably only makes for a mildly interesting side show to any alien life forms who want to watch for a bit and then turn away, shaking their heads while saying “Been there. Done that.”


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God isn’t the one that will arbitrarily be putting an end to this mess - we are. God doesn’t bring destruction - God rescues us out of the destruction we bring on ourselves.

Never before in history, has mankind been able to actually destroy the earth’s entire population. We have this confidence that we can fix all this mess - save the environment by making electric cars - by covering fields with plastic solar panels, and the horizon with giant metal blades. We think we can save the world by creating a “one world government” that will still be based on human need for power and control. And now we’re creating the ultimate source of TRUTH and progress by feeding super computers with someone’s idea of truth and calling it “artificial INTELLIGENCE”. All the while lawlessness reigns and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. No part of society is going to fix what’s been going on.

Jesus describes His coming as a rescue mission when He says, Unless those days had been cut short, no flesh (life) would have been saved; No other time in history has mankind created weapons to actually blow up the planet.

God is not going leave out anybody from the chance of whatever life He has planned for our future. He is not waiting for some Adventist to perfectly keep the commandments and then reign fire and brimstone on the rest. That would be a narcissistic monster, making the gospel of Christ null and void.

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