Are You an Adventist Absolutionist?

As Seventh-day Adventists celebrate Creation Sabbath this weekend, Stanborough Press editor, David Neal, takes a critically radical look at Adventist identity in terms of current environmental issues.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/11475
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If we believe in Colossians 1:17 That Jesus holds all things together, that Christ is in control of ALL things. Then we need to cling to the promise God gave in His covenant to Noah in Genesis 8:21,22

The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his you; and I will never again destroy every living things, as I have done.
“While the earth remains,
Seed time and harvest,
And cold and heat,
And summer and winter,
And day and night,
Shall not cease.

We must accept that God is control of this planet, He has the whole world in His hands Psalm 24:1,2.
That does not mean that we should not treat it badly, but knowing that nothing will change unless God has ordained it climate change does not bring me fear.
If God has kept things going since creation, then God can keep things going for as long as He wants.

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I am sure. God told us to take care of this world that he gave to humanity, that indicates action not just saying God will take care of it with out any actions from us.

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We all need to do our part in keeping the earth as clean as is reasonable. Unfortunately sin gets in the way. Greed, power and control leak into the efforts and as the scientists play with numbers the politicians play with power and control. Numbers and findings get twisted to fit a political narrative and rules for thee but not for me come into play. Currently the USA is very clean, however there is always room for improvement, whereas China is a dirty and filthy player in this world environment care effort and yet they go unchallenged with little accountability. Biden won’t be tough on them because they have “dirt” on him and his son, but also Biden lacks the ability to think critically.
Having our transportation switch to electric motors sounds nice but doing the complete study finds that from manufacturing beginnings to end of life batteries results in horrendous pollution’s when compared with burning clean coal and developing fuels and gas. We have made great progress in these areas but eliminating them would be foolish.
Grass fed beef cattle is far more healthy for the consumer and the environment when looking at the meat eating preferences.
Many typical citizens care about our earth but many do not. Just looking at New York, Chicago, and other coastal cities shows that many do not care beyond the front of their nose.

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Did I say we shouldn’t take care of it? What I’m saying is that God is in control and as He knows the end from the beginning He will not allow things get to a point where humankind cannot function.

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This has always been my position.

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As you can see, taking care of the world we live in has been politicized, including segments of SDAism. Their always seems to be those that would lessen the importance by using the the “God is in control” and won’t allow us to destroy it. I find that too often used when issues are being downplayed. We know from history how climate changes have affected peoples, economies and even health. Wars have been fought because of those changes in our world also. We are here, lets do our best to conserve it and not depend on what we ‘think’ God will do.

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There are certain issues that responsible people must address and even attempt to effect if they want to be good children of God, regardless of their religion. Some that come to my mind are: opposing war, opposing the military adventurism that our government engages in, opposing continued buildup of nuclear weapons, opposing lawlessness, opposing tyranny, etc, etc. It is my Christian duty to oppose these bad things.

One issue that I’m not ready to jump onto is man made global warming, or “climate change” as it is now known. My reason is that I have not been convinced that it is a real phenomenon. How do we know it is not just sun cycles? When I was young, we were told that we were heading for another ice age, then suddenly the opinion I heard on all the mass media was that the earth was gong to become too hot.

Perhaps the good people on this discussion board could attempt to educate me by presenting some proof of man made global warming. I’ve had a little science training in the past so I can probably understand.
Till then,I remain,
Skeptical

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A simple Google search will give you all the sources you can read and then some. ‘Climate change’ is a good word to put into search bar. Enjoy!

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I think I agree with David Neal that we can’t rely on God to protect us from our own mistakes. He has given us free will. And this free will is unfortunately often exercised collectively. God did not protect us from the collective disasters of WW1 and WW2. God has not prevented humans from amassing enough nukes to literally kill the human race. God may not send the parousia in time to save us from the apocalypse of man made global warming.

I don’t think I agree that we know that man made global warming is a true fact.

Climate change enthusiasts tell us to listen to the “science”. “Science” tells us that the earth has been through many long term cycles of ice ages and warming in the past. I don’t know how “science” knows this, but that is what we are told.

What evidence is there that tells us that global warming is not just another cycle of the ancient global rhythm of ice ages interspersed with warm ages? Should we disrupt the global economy which may cause mass starvation to attempt altering a cycle that “science” tells us has been going on since before humans were here?

How many true believers in global warming do you know that are buying real estate in N.Alaska, N.Canada, or N.Siberia? I haven’t heard of a land rush up there. WHY NOT? Is anybody planning on colonizing the Antarctic? All true believers should be protecting their families with a modest investment in ultra cold real estate.
I have considered it, but haven’t decided that it’s a smart investment. It could however be a good diversification, if done modestly. Even IF the earth doesn’t end in heat death as predicted, a hideout in Northern Siberia might be good for sheltering in place during the Apocalypse while waiting for the rapture, Or the next ice age.

Who is the largest consumer of fossil fuels?
I suspect it is the armies of the world, including especially, the US military.

I’m very pessimistic about our prospects of of convincing them to use less gas. We can’t even get them to stop making nukes.

Climate change is not as much an issue as attitude change. The fear monger’s could use a little attitude change and quit throwing money down an endless pit. Besides, the climate changes every season and the thousand year measurement records do not exist to support the fear monger’s religion.

I have not down played it but it seems that we down play how much God is in control.

How can I stop China from having those dirty industries? What can I do to physically stop all those countries doing what they are doing? I can’t, I can do my part as small as it is.

But the bible (God) is very clear, that we must not be anxious for anything.

It’s not like this is not something God knows about, He is al knowing, He knows the end from the beginning.

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How about a conspiracy “theory” to kick up the interest here.

Here is a thought that you should find interesting even if you think conspiracies are not possible.

I’m not saying this is a fact, but part of it IS written in stone.
Refute this:
Maybe global warming is more than just a giant hoax, and its ulterior ultimate purpose is to disrupt the global economy so badly that it causes starvation for many many people.

Drastic depopulation is an agenda of certain elite people with a lot of money. You may not want to believe this, but it IS written in stone, literally. Somebody wants to wipe out 90% of the human population. Who?


.

.
Here is a Biblical allusion to world depopulation during the Apocalypse:
King James Bible
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

I was going to insert a video here of Bill Gates saying his vaccine would be great for controlling world population, but YouTube has deleted the video. You will just have to take my word for it because you tube deleted all these videos. One of them was a compilation of Bill Gates saying on 4 different occasions that his vaccines would help control world population.
Why would Gates make such a claim?
Why would YouTube delete something so interesting?
They say it is “against community guidelines.”
Too wild for YouTube!

- YouTube

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You are especially right on the topic of batteries. They wear out and then become a disposal problem. And if you think that batteries for electric golf carts and electric cars are a problem, just ponder the HUGE wind charger towers that dot the western landscape. They need relatively bigger and better batteries than hydroelectric systems, because wind is way less regular and predictable than water from the dam.

I suspect these towers are so popular because of federal subsidies and that they may not be profitable if the federal subsidies are ever removed. Let us hope that the subsidies never stop, because if they do these towers may become useless huge dead dinosaurs cluttering our landscape. Maybe even monuments of man’s misadventures.

If anybody in this blog site has an offer of a wind-charger lease on your land, consider these observations:
I. Neighbors. You want to remain friends.
II. Wildlife. They are hazardous to birds.
III. Cleanup. Be sure your contract has a clause requiring the company remove the tower when they are finished with it. (May not matter anyway if they go bankrupt from loss of fed subsidies.)

Because the regions where there is “ultra cold real estate,” such as Greenland and Antarctica, have unprecedented melting of ice shelves and masses, including the polar caps. Ocean levels are rising and may not spare coast lines, even there.

Frank

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God is in control, as if he will override human choices and actions, sounds like a religious copout. It comes from a Calvinist and pre-determinist way of reading the Bible.

In the beginning of the biblical narrative, mankind is made to be stewards/managers of the creation. That is the job and responsibility of human beings. In Genesis 1, it is the way humanity is to bear the image of God into all creation. God won’t do this or assume this for us. “God is in control” is a back door way of ultimately bailing on our collective image bearing responsibility. There is a reason why the conservative Christian church has the worst record on creation care. Part of it is a gospel whose end goal is escaping a burning planet, so who cares? The other is, God will ultimately bail us out, so why be concerned?

We don’t have to be anxious in our faith, as we take appropriate action. The most effective prayer for a toothache is one prayed on the way to the dentist.

Frank

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Not sure how you got that from what I wrote, I take the bible for what it says.
So are you suggesting God is not in control of this earth and we are?
Who created it? Who created gravity? Was it us or God? Job chapters 37 onwards are great chapters to see the power of God.
Being not anxious is not just about faith it’s everything about our lives.
Like I say it’s not a cop out, but I have asked before, how can I stop the dirty industries belching out green house gases? I can’t personally, I can put pressure on my own government,I can do my part but I am limited to what I can do.

It’s why it’s referred to as climate change…not global warming. It results in extreme weather patterns that we’ve been seeing in increasing measure now…for years.

We can all oppose the increasing stockpiling of military weaponry. We can all oppose looting and rioting, either in cities or attempted sedition at the Capitol. We can do these things while still acknowledging that we are damaging the environment with greenhouse gases, that the ice caps and ice shelves are melting at an unprecedented rate, that sea levels are rising, and that we can’t use pseudo science as an excuse to do nothing about it.

Genesis 1 portrays humans as bearing the image of God in the world as wise stewards of his creation. How is the burning of the rainforest, unchecked burning of fossil fuels, and much more, in line with that vocation? How are Christians who don’t care about it and not using their influence in small or larger ways to call for responsible change carrying out that God given vocation? And yes, that can even encompass our views on vehicle manufacturing and choices.

Frank

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