“Authority and Heterodoxy”: the 47th Annual West Coast Religion Teachers Conference Meets at Pacific Union College

(Carolyn Wesner) #27

This all reminds me of another important meeting which was hidden for many years, the 1919 Bible Conference. Same kind of venue, same kind of participants, same kind of conclusions - none. Keep it quiet, pledge your allegiance, keep your jobs, and kick the can down the road for future generations to deal with. Poor old A.G. Daniels! The more things change, the more they stay the same…


Funny, but it is real war with real death I was referring to. But if you think hiding is good so they can keep their careers and make sure nothing ever changes I am sure you can be quite happy with what is going on now. 40 years after Glacier View…does not seem that the hiding game has helped a whole lot.


Your word, Ron, is “hiding.”

There is nothing wrong with having a private meeting.

My word is caution.

You see things in black & white. You do know the war continues to rid Adventism of insufficient theological correctness.

I could be wrong, Ron, but clearly the war continues against women, against anyone who could be “tainted” by Des Ford’s perceived “heresy,” as you well know. Look. Open your eyes to such inventions as “compliance” or discipline committees. Those are a definite declaration of war.


Funny, Ron, but the war going on is definitely death. Death of careers, church members, and churches. Young adults. Families. Marriages. Are you aware of the fallout of the 1980s theology war? Collateral damage. Losses. Deaths.

(George Tichy) #31

Well, some people do not believe that the holocaust happened either.

(George Tichy) #32

Sometimes what people do to others is worse than killing them literally. The emotional wounds they inflict - often in name of religion - is nothing but evil at works. This is exactly what was done to Des Ford!


Apparently. Anyway I have no idea about your local church, I doubt they publish their beliefs as opposed to the SDA denomination beliefs, so I would have no way of knowing if there is a difference or not. Let alone know if what you perceive about your local church is the reality or not, so you can understand why I deal with the SDA denomination and not your local church.


It’s good to have a voice in the community who provides a different perspective, even if it is to defend treatment of Des Ford as irrelevant, treatment of scholars today as irrelevant, threats to academics as perfectly acceptable, war against women as a viable way to rid the church of gender discrimination issues, and support of compliance committees to go after selective issues over other issues, including plagiarism, sexual predation, gender exclusivity in spiritual leadership.

(George Tichy) #39

LOL… Harrpa, that was funny, especially the part, “It’s good to have a voice…” It’s very helpful, isn’t it?..


I have no idea what you are talking about. But I am guessing it has to do with some assumptions you are making quite apart from anything I said. Sort of like out of context quoting.

(Elmer Cupino) #41

If I were a professor having a Doctorate in Ministry, (which would qualify me as a used car salesman outside of the denomination) who has invested, say 10 years of teaching, when a GC President is elected for 8 years who brings a different set of agenda more favorable to a third world culture, I would keep quiet too knowing he could terminate my employment. I could outlast him and then hope a GC President with an agenda more favorable and equitable be elected. No use standing up to a temporary situation with long lasting negative results. There is nothing “troublesome” about this.

(George Tichy) #45

Thanks for this precious clarification. That’s exactly what I always thought, and I don’t see a problem with it the way you described it.

If, 40 years ago, the GC had used Ford to prepare a strategy on how to educate the clergy (first) on the facts he was unveiling, and then maybe after a few years of this education becoming effective expanding it slowly to the church members at large, and using the SSQ as an educational tool as well, the results could have been really healthy. Truth could probably have prevailed.

Ah…, but the biggest hindrance… “I was shown”…

Never mind… in Adventism, the “I was shown” is untouchable no matter what the Bible says… Therefore, keep the secret meetings happening. Hopefully a strategy will be developed… (Hurry up with this!)


No, I understand rationalizations. I just don’t find them adequate. Your first example was the theme of the 1919 Bible conference. Fat lot of good that did by remaining secret (at least until in the what, the 70’s when Spectrum publishes the minutes). That alone should tell you in religion don’t hide your ideas. The second thing you mention is science. Well the faith and Science conference were much the same except not secret but toward the end it was given over to the bureaucracy to spin the scholarly material for the public and church. Again not really good for new ideas or scholarship at all. So really all evidence points away from secret meetings!

(James J Londis) #49

I agree, but administrators worry about fallout, reaction, dropping revenues, and so on. Understandable in the immediate situation but destructive of trust in the long-term.

(James J Londis) #50

Well, 1919 was about EGW. Was similar theme but different authority.

(Tim Teichman) #52

Yes, things like science. Little nagging facts that come from disciplines like cosmology, geology, paleontology, biology, and genetics. All of which tell us we have been here a very long time, on a very old earth, in an even older universe.

And that we’re all descended from one woman who lived about 150,000 years ago, along with many other women, but she is the only one we are all related to.

Little nagging things like this can pose a challenge.


Des Ford was not correct in his teaching.
I sat in his SS class. I read his material. I listened to him. He was incorrect and would not change his mind.
Were they supposed to let him continue to teach ideas unsupported by Scripture or the SOP?

(George Tichy) #81

I hold a different opinion: Des Ford was correct in his teachings.

I not only read his materials, I studied them carefully in the early 80’s, starting with the GV document. I exchanged correspondence with him for about 9 years before I moved from Brazil to the US. I developed a personal relationship with him. I walked with him. I attended several of his preachings, and watched many of his videos. I kept in touch with him (and Gill) until the end.

Sorry for the excessive use of “I” it’s just that you are not the only one who read him, listened to him, knew him. And I reached my conclusion mainly because I studied and re-studied the book of Hebrews so many times. Des was in total agreement with what Hebrews teaches, therefore he could not just ignore Hebrews and stick to what EGW taught.

In terms of doctrine, Des became a “Sola Scriptura” Christian. And so did I.

(George Tichy) #82

In my opinion, because those problems were never resolved honestly and properly, Adventism gradually lost its relevance. Look how ir-relevant it is for the youth now, and even for so many long term Adventists.

What we need urgently now is a course correction. Though I am afraid that Des Ford offered the last opportunity for a recalibration. Adventism became a religion recorded in history now as one that went “from the Bible to EGW.”

The main need in Adventism now is, MARA: Making Adventism Relevant Again.

(Johnny Carson) #83

Probably the most astute observation in this thread. Becoming more irrelevant all the time, as is Christianity as a whole, at least in the US, and if thinking individuals will step back and look at the things Christianity here stands for in recent years it becomes obvious why it’s losing relevancy. Why would anyone willingly choose to associate themselves with the kind of vitriol, selfishness, self-aggrandizement disguised as personal holiness, and hatred emanating lately in the name of Christ?