Brian Bull and Fritz Guy Discuss Genesis 1 and Modern Science (Part 1)

Relatively few of us wake up in the morning saying, "In order to have a really good day, I need a nourishing breakfast and an up-to-date geological and biological history of the earth and human life." We are more likely to ask why we are working so hard and if our lives actually matter in the overall scheme of things.

As this shows, Paul Tillich was right about at least one thing. This is that Christian doctrines are theological answers to existential questions.

On the other hand, it is difficult to be helped in the long run by theological answers to existential questions which do not make scientific sense. If we are attracted to the idea that religion and science deal with different things, or if we are post-moderns of one type, we can do this for a long time. Yet eventually this breaks down, if not in our own lives than in the lives of our offspring. There is no substitute for working toward an integrated understanding of everything we now know.

This is what makes this Sabbath School series so vital. In this five-part video series, Brian Bull and Fritz Guy lead discussions on their book God, Sky & Land: Genesis 1 as the Ancient Hebrews Heard It (Adventist Forum, 2011).

They have recently published a second book: God, Land, and the Great Flood: Hearing the Story with 21st Century Christian Ears (Adventist Forum, 2017). Doctors Bull and Guy have said the issues discussed in their second book are much more challenging than the ones in their first, which are discussed in this video series. First things first!

Both of these books help us to integrate things by improving our understanding of what Scripture does and does not say in comparison to current scientific knowledge. We are not obliged to accept any or all of their proposals, however, we would be wise at least to consider them.

Watch Brian Bull and Fritz Guy on "Genesis 1 and Modern Science" (Part 1):

This discussion occurred at the Roy Branson Legacy Sabbath School (RBLSS) class in Loma Linda, California on March 17, 2018.

Dr. David Larson is Professor of Religion at Loma Linda University.

Image Credit: Video Still

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/8799

I see these two are still at it. If you start with the wrong premise you will end up with the wrong conclusion. The Bible, other than prophecy, was not written in code to be deciphered. Read it straight. What does it say to you? It tells me that God spoke the world into existence in 6 literal days around 6000 years ago, and it tells me that He destroyed it by a flood which covered the whole world approx 1700 years later.

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Um… Is there a link to a video missing here??? @webEd

Cassie –
Part of our Geological Problems began a couple hundred years ago over in the Alps,
and in Scandinavia.
When some amature Rock Hound CLERGY began looking at rocks along streams.
Began looking at Rock STRATA around where they lived.
Because they lived in different countries they began corresponding in LATIN about
what they were observing. Soon they had a number of other Clergy who were in the
E-mail by Postal Mail group corresponding together.
But they could ONLY do it in Europe.
American Clergy were not taught Latin in the American Schools. So America was left
out of the “Loop” of scientific information about Rocks and Rock Formations for a very
long time.
Eventually there was quite a correspondence – Europe, England, Ireland – among the
group and they began to publish.
ALL of THIS because of a few NOSY PREACHERS who Would NOT stay home.

QUESTION – WHY is part of the rock formation of Nova Scotia “cemented” to rock formation
over in the British Isles???

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Cassie –
When “our friends” in the Middle East were writing out their ideas of the world
with a sharp flat stick on some clay that they baked, they did not know much
about the rest of the planet ball we call Earth.
So they were quite limited.
Just like we today are still limited about what is still in the Amazon Jungle.
Or, what kind of critters and other life is at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.
But we can still believe in the God of Creation. And in His revealed word.
the revealed Word has
===Facts.
=== Hidden messages of many layers embedded in the stories and other
narration.
It is very EASY for us SDAs to not receive these messages because we are
TOO FOCUSED on the Facts.

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One more thing that the two of us agree on… :innocent:

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Cassie –
Greek navigators [Phonecians, Philistines?? they were part of the Greek crowd]in the B.C times had a navigation device that could tell latitude and longitude. One was found in a shipwreck in the Med.
Far as I know no one has figured out how it worked.

@niteguy2, are you referring to the Antikythera mechanism?

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Bull and Guy have an interesting approach. I have not yet read their books but wonder where it ends or does it? Where do theology and science interact or do they, on the topic of origins? Does Ian Michael (Ian McLennan also?) take the Big Bang as the start of everything with spontaneous origin of life and evolution accounting for his origin? Or does theology suggest a creative role for God in the origin of Ian? Even Brian and Fritz?

If you view the article on our website (as opposed to the Discourse site you’re commenting on), you will see the video embedded in the article and can watch it directly on our site and/or click through to YouTube. Here is the link to the article:

https://spectrummagazine.org/article/2018/05/31/brian-bull-and-fritz-guy-discuss-genesis-1-and-modern-science-part-1

Hope that helps.

-WebEd

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Apparently they worked pretty well uh??? LOL…

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If the “Great Sea” acted up like described in some of the Psalms, being in those
smallish wooden boats must have been quite terrifying. Many of those ancient
crafts are at the bottom of Davy Jonses’ Locker.
Actually an item like that would make going to the British Isles, Scandinavia
possible. Maybe even crossing the Atlantic.
Back in 1974 at a community college a cut-out from some journal was on the
bulletin board. Said scratchings on rocks in South Georgia, believed to be Indian
scratching, was seen by a person who knew Old Hebrew from 1000 bc, reported it
was Jewish graffiti – kind of like “Kilroy was here” type stuff.
But I haven’t heard any thing more since.
I have heard rumors of being Old Maps of the Antartica before covered in so much
ice. Showing the real coast line. Prior to “European” explorers.

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Yes Steve, researchers and scientists have found so many things in nature that really made it all a continuously growing puzzle. As you certainly noticed I do not get much involved in the conversations about creationism, evolution, etc because the information one has to master before being actually able to comment on the issue is so vast and immense, and I didn’t have time to consume the info on it.

I took classes on Geology and Science & Religion in college. Excellent teachers, but unfortunately their info was of course “Adventistized” and did not look objectively to some facts that were already known even in those days. Now, that was in the past Century,… so imagine how much more challenging info there is in our days.

This is why I usually stay out of the talk about this issue - I lack enough knowledge on it. I defer the discussions to those guys who come here to teach us all on those complicated subjects, since they declare themselves (self declared…) experts! :roll_eyes::roll_eyes:

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I used to have George McCready Price’s book.
Actually, he and William Jennings Bryan were friends, and corresponded.
Bryan tried to get Price to come to Dayton, TN for the “Monkey Trial” there,
but Price was lecturing in England and unable.
The Scope’s Trial was quite a watershed for WHAT could be taught in schools.
Tennesse law at the time said ONLY Creation could be taught.
It was business men of Dayton that decided to test the law.
Clarence Darrow was the Defense Lawyer. I was told that Darrow had an AUNT
living near Chicago,and was an SDA. [would have access to Price’s material through
her].
Graysville, the site of the original Southern University was just a few miles from Dayton.
A huge SDA community.
So indirectly, SDAs were involved on both sides. As Price wrote Bryan back and told
him what to say, what not to say.
I saw part of the transcript at the court house, and Bryan believed in 1000 yr per day belief and said so on the stand, even though Price cautioned him NOT to.
Scopes was found guilty, and just had to pay a fine.

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On a somewhat similar note I did some reading a few years ago that told about the sophisticated clocks used by the Romans. Apparently they were powered by water, and dependent on the latitude of the specific clock so that a clock made for one location would only be accurate for that location of latitude. The day was divided into two 12 hour segments, day and night, and the hours would change in length as the seasons changed and the length of the daylight and nighttime changed.

Each Roman outpost had a clock keeper who was responsible for making the clock, keeping the clock running, and accurately recording the activities of his assigned outpost. If water was in short supply the clock took priority over people. I just wish I could remember where it was I was reading that. Fascinating stuff.

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It doesn’t actually say that in the original. It says God created the land, as in the homeland. There is no concept of planet earth in the bible.

In any case, neither of those things happened. The world is 5 billion years old, the sun 7 billion. Plus or minus.

There may have been a local flood at some point, likely at the end of the last ice age. But there is not enough water on the earth to raise the sea level more than about 100 - 200 feet higher than it is today, if all the ice on the planet melted. And there has never been any more water on the earth than we have today.

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Yes, and why are there rock outcroppings in Central Park, NYC that match exactly rocks in England and no where else on earth? Because, or course, they were once one rock formation before the continents shifted apart to create the Atlantic Ocean. A process which took a billion years.

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They actually didn’t know anything about the planet. They didn’t know they were on a planet or what a planet is.

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Yes, they saw amazing wandering stars, which were dubbed planets. But they didn’t know what they were or why they moved the way they did. And they didn’t know they were also on a planet.

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Tim –
Thanks! A very enlightening article.
We have very little idea of what is STILL out there that God plays with.
God’s TOYS are much bigger than ours. And has a bigger sand box in
His back yard.

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