Can Critical Race Theory Help in Understanding Religion?

Yep, and I will continue to do so. Especially as you seem intent on insulting my intelligence repeatedly. Why would I want to discuss it with you in that environment. We clearly disagree. So be it. I don’t feel bound to change your mind. I would rather continue to work with the Black community to find ways to overcome the current barriers in place that keep them from being able to compete on an even playing field. I would rather continue to listen to what my Black friends have to say about what it is like for them in America today. I would rather continue to look at the data and see what it has to say, as an ignorant biologist with no training in philosophy, history, sociology, psychology, or theology. Maybe I have too much of an open mind. :upside_down_face:

3 Likes

bness,
Not so fast on the “Carl Marx ideas can be taken lightly” approach. The CRT subject has come along strongly with other Marxist, Socialist, Communist practices in the USA since the current democrat government has stolen itself into power. When looking at all the massive mistakes in spending, tax invasion, out of control border policies, paying people to stay home which destroys our economy, the destruction of the greatest economy ideal (Capitalism) any country could have in this sinful world, a huge debacle in leaving Afghanistan, cozy-ing up with Communist China by leaving a fully functional military equipped base to share with the Taliban, allowing Communist China to make all of our electronic and medicinal needs, only shows that when we allow Marxist ideals leak their way into our government and schools our nation will cease to exist as a free and sovereign nation. CRT is all part of this plan as it will cause much divisiveness and confusion, which is using Satan’s playbook. If CRT can help in understanding religion, it would be to see how much we need a savior and each other, but to keep Satan at bay rather than vote his assistants into office.

:+1: :rofl: :roll_eyes:

Mr. Ness, this is the “Belief Superiority” that I find bankrupt, since it assumes that only your methods of helping these communities are viable, and you don’t really care about whether yours are viable or not, so long as these make you feel good and just in this era of post-rationalism where this ideology progressing to something similar to religion.

In short, you can’t answer my criticism, so you end label it as racist, however politely and indirectly it may be.

Never-mind that I spent great deal of my life working with black youth, and generally teach anti-Marxist principles of individual responsibility, value of family structure as generational wealth and experience store, and of course, the value of becoming an expert to the point where one’s denial of your expertise on basis of skin color becomes a detriment to their competitors.

Something that the parents of these youth agree with very much.

But, I get it…there’s only one way to CRT heaven, and it’s by re-educating white man out of all of his nonsense cultural impositions of “Western Values”.

Carry on :slight_smile:

2 Likes

Really? You understand me rather well, I guess. Actually, I don’t have the time to do it and based on past experience it makes little difference anyway discussing this topic with people who just keep piling on ad hominem attacks.

Good for you. I am glad you have been able to be a benefit.

1 Like

Wow! This seems a little one-sided and a bit of black and white, us vs. them thinking. Could we perhaps engage in a little more of a dialectical approach?

2 Likes

I can only describe tendency. I could be surprised and change my mind :slight_smile: . But, so far you seem to be fairly convinced by premises of Neo-Marxist approach to racial dialectics… meaning, there’s no room for “non-racists” chipping away at specialized niches of contributing factors to racial disparity that extend beyond racial past.

I could be wrong, of course. I apologize in advance if I am. My hope is that people can change and be more flexible than cram everything into “for or against” of Neo-Marxist approach, and recognize it as a gradient rather than a definitive line. I don’t have to swallow DiAngelo to understand and contribute to solutions, without seeing it as some ominous “structure” one reifies from selective approach to statistics.

I tend to think that barking at “invisible arm of modern white supremacy” is barking at the moon. There are more concrete problems to identify and solve.

I did that. Did you read beyond the sentence you quote?
CRT teaches children to be racist. It teaches that the Declaration of Independence is racist and denies it’s historical accuracy of a declaration of freedom from another country as we started our own. It denies the fact that our stated country progressed to removing the practice of owning other people as slaves, and does not speak of the truth that the Democrat party fought to keep the practice. Popular concepts like “wokeness,” the social justice movement, Cultural Marxism, and the Black Lives Matter organization are all tied to critical race theory and these all focus on harm and disrespect, and most of all victimization.
Races don’t exist in the bible. Every person is united by our same first parents, Adam and Eve, and we are members of one race, the human race. The entire CRT philosophy is built on a social construction with no foundation in the Bible or genetics. The concept of race corrupts biblical categories with sometimes-deadly results. The modern understanding of “race” often separates people groups pitting so-called races against each other, as was seen in the Black Lives Matter-inspired riots of 2020 when at least 25 people died. Racial animosity is built upon a modern, evolution-inspired conception of race. But in the Bible and in genetics, races don’t actually exist.
CRT, in short, is a religion at odds with biblical Christianity. Dictionary.com defines (2) religion as: “a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.” So religion includes beliefs and practices agreed upon by certain people that function as a worldview. CRT includes those elements and can be considered a religious worldview.
So again, can critical race theory help in understanding religion? It can help us understand that racism is not in the bible and that Satan is sneaking into our civilization racism, hatred, confusion, inequality by way of “equity”, and of course corrupted power and control. Satan’s playbook. If only Martin Luther King would still be alive, he could lead once again with his biblical truths.

Hmm. You do know that the ideology of the Democratic Party of the Civil War era was essentially the ideology of the Republican Party today, right? Of course neither party condones slavery today, but if one party did, it would be the Republican party. It was the Republican party that resisted MLK’s support for Black civil rights and other human rights issues.

Hmm. Ponder this for a moment:


Source: MLK's Daughter Hits Back at Kevin McCarthy's Attack on Critical Race Theory

Were you also aware that MLK was repeatedly accused of being a Marxist in his day? Almost exactly the same accusations being hurled today at groups like Black Lives Matter, which carries on the legacy of MLK, were being routinely hurled at MLK. I suspect that most of those so vociferously shouting that structural racism does not exist, would not have been pleased with MLK, were they to live in his day.

2 Likes

Right. I’m not sure this analogy is particularly apt, but maybe we can make it a little more accurate. Suppose we lived in a country where legal wife-beating was the law of the land in our relatively recent history. (Hmm, might not be all that hard to imagine.) Suppose that women were systematically beaten and abused for economic gain, and that this wasn’t an isolated incident. Suppose that after finally getting a divorce and some measure of independence, your Aunt Mary was harassed by both her neighbors and her ex-husband, to the extent that she was denied the ability to go to school or purchase property. When she did find a place where she could legally live, she was unsafe. People all around her would deny her basic rights just because she was a “divorcee.” Now imagine that despite a lifetime of this kind of treatment, Aunt Mary still came around at Thanksgiving to spend time with her extended family–family that for years had been silent as she suffered. Now imagine that she brings up the topic of her CURRENT struggles, and the inequality she experiences every day. And imagine the absolute gall of the family who, in return, would say “Ah, your old problems again? Wasn’t this fixed decades ago? I know you claim that people are still unkind to divorcees, but frankly I don’t believe you. I know I’m married but I NEVER experience this kind of treatment. Besides, it makes the kids uncomfortable. It’s unfair of you to soil our fun time by preaching to a captive audience. Shut up or leave, fam.”

6 Likes

In fact, if Jesus were here today, he would be accused of being a Marxist. And if what happened in Acts 2 was happening today the people of the church would be accused of being Marxist. :wink:

3 Likes

Ha ha! Yeah. I mean they held all they owned in common and shared with each as they had need. Sounds like communism to me. :wink: But seriously, that was my point in suggesting that Marxist ideas are not simply good or bad, there is a mixture of good and bad ideas. Just because elements of Marxism are used to come to a conclusion does not automatically make that conclusion bad.

4 Likes

I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the web Ed took down my response to you on this same point, for getting too nasty. ( I think). So let me explain, both to you and the webEd.

To say that Marxism shouldn’t be judged just because “it was used badly by someone once” is the same as saying, Mein Kampf has some good ideas, and shouldn’t be rejected just because “Hitler used it badly once”.

Both Marx and Hitler are the two book-ends that display some of the worst examples of inhumanity between the two of them. I reacted personally to your remark since it was Marx and Marxism that was responsible for enslaving most of Eastern Europe for over 50 years, sending train loads of men, women and children into the gulags of Siberia, confiscating their homes, and breaking lives.

When Marxist troops marched into the land I was born in, they took away homes and farms because private property is not allowed under this regime. George Orwell knew what it was about, where “everyone was equal,” except “some are more equal than others”.

When the “mostly peaceful” demonstrations burned down whole communities last summer, and tore down statues that represented American history it was dejavu all over again. This is its “modus operandi” - divide and conquer - destroy the culture - burn the books - change the history and the meaning of the words that describe it - stomp out individualism - ideology over personal beliefs an opinions - don’t think - just be woke, or you’ll not be able to tweet, connect on Facebook, perhaps one day, even “buy or sell”.

I didn’t escape those “progressive ideas of Marxism” just see it rise again. Everything old is new again, unfortunately. :wink:

@webEd (In case you missed it.)

3 Likes

What about Christianity then? If we consider all the persecutions caused by the Christian churches, the tortures, antisemitism and the persecutions of the Jews for centuries, slavery, colonialism, etc, well before any Karl Marx or Hitler came on the scene, we can say that we have some introspection to do.

2 Likes

[quote=“Nymous, post:37, topic:21992”]ack
What about Christianity then?
[/quote]

Sorry to say, that is the human nature Christ went to the cross for. It’s all the same evil, just played on different backdrops. There are autocrats in both, governments and pulpits.

3 Likes

That is a false statement. I do know that this statement is merely a twist to make the democrat party of today feel good about themselves and hope to convince others to believe it if it is continuously repeated. The democrat party of today is still the same in constantly seeking power and control. Referring to this article we are responding to, a newer approach for the power hungry democrat party is to infiltrate religion with Marxianity.
Also, using the term “democratic” party is a misnomer. Our nation practices democratic approaches to decision making and it is a republic. The democrat party is exactly that, democrat.

Probably typical title assignment of the day. Similar to today with the made up term of White Supremacy, etc. There is no way that MLK was Marxist. Marxism is against the family and Christianity.

You saved me from saying similar. It is the application of ideas like Marxism or Christianity that can be either good or bad, not necessarily the ideas themselves. Both Marxism, and dare I say the Christian worldview, are a mixture of good and bad ideas. Some philosophies, like Nazism are a little more rotten to the core, but even Christianity has had its rotten spots (e.g., patriarchalism, which so often leads to misogyny; and further back in history the idea that genocide is okay, aka the Crusades.)

Just identifying that Marxist philosophy influenced the development of CRT does not mean that CRT is wrong, and certainly not that it is some evil idea. One does not need to read a word Marx has written to see the logic of how slavery and white supremacy have led to the current structural racism that so plagues modern America. And the complicity of the Christian churches in the development and maintenance of slavery and racist oppression during the Jim Crow era is easily demonstrated.

As long as the church refuses to see its past role in the development of institutional racism, and tries to claim that there is currently no such thing as institutionalized racism, the church continues to condone the unequal rights and treatment of Blacks. The church may not be racist, because we currently speak out against racism and say we welcome Blacks into the church as complete equals, but the church cannot be considered antiracist as long as it keeps trying to hide the evidence that America has a problem with institutionalized racism. I know very few people I would label as racist, but a great many who are not antiracist.

5 Likes

Critical race theory is nothing more than virtue posturing and " white people" bashing To pretend that the epidermis confers some social advantage is beyond insanity . The true discussion should be about culture. Is one culture better than another ? No, they are just different because it develops over a long period of time If we review where the various races developed we have to go back to the tower of Babel where God confused the language of the people so they would be less inclined to stay in one location and thus spread around the world and fulfill the God’s purpose to "be fruitful and multiple " This makes more sense to me and as humans separated, they physically adapted to the various geographical areas they moved to over a long period of time Adaptation is NOT evolution If Adam and Eve were our first parents how do you account for all the various races Adaptation seems logical The question that arises is how quickly did adaptation occur? The answer is, I don’t know . However if Adam and Eve were created 50 to 100,00 yrs ago then it seems plausible it occured gradually over that time frame
Dave Okamura

4 Likes

Why the concentration on black vs white " Last I looked there are more than 2 skin colors I’m neither, I’m Caucasian. Where do I fit with this topic? So I guess I’m ineligible to comment since I don’t have the skin color of either side
Dave Okamura

3 Likes

If Marxism is not satanic then its founder just wrote poems praising the Devill because he thought it was better than embracing christianity Marx was not an economic theorist ,he was envious of the rich
Dave Okamura

2 Likes