Case by Casebolt: The 666 of Revelation 13

Maybe some SDA’s have been reading your comments, George, and have you to thank/blame?!?!

(I appreciate everything you do, BTW.

Pretty sure TW and gang probably aren’t so thankful, though!!! :rofl:)

As the old Beck song goes:

Who could ever be so cruel?
Blame the devil for the things you do.

:thinking:

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Bruce,
I’m not concerned with TW because he reads only the “boox” (this is true, public knowledge and not gossip) thus he unfortunately has no clue about what goes on in the real world outside his delusional bubble.

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Those who cling to the silly notions that there will be a “shaking”, point to such figures as a fulfillment of prophecy as well. They cleverly have both sides covered - membership increasing means they are correct, membership decreasing means they are correct.

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In his latest interview by Ted Wilson, George Santos said that he has "no clue what the number 666 refers to. " He stated that he “just wrote down” whatever he "was shown " when he wrote the Book of Revelation.

Therefore, the mysterious enigma remains unresolved!

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I’m not sure what the holy father had in mind, but if one of the purposes of myth is to teach us about the world and our relationship to it as well as show us or remind us that there is more to humanity than our material selves, then I agree with him.

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Did you know that in 1982 the secretary of the White Estate, Robert Olson wrote that EGW misinterpreted her first vision? I think there is evidence that she at least overinterpreted several visions after that. I suggest that several of her misinterpreted experiences are due to confabulation. See my book Father Miller’s Daughter for a brief intro to this concept. I hope to publish a long article citing mutiple examples soon. My conclusion is that it is futile to blame EGW, Willie White, Arthur White since they were doing the best they could altho sincerely mistaken at times. Our kids and grandkids will probably think we are foolish for holding some of our beliefs eventually. I also recommend you obtain Dr. Don McAdams new book from Acorn Press which explains in granular detail how EGW copied from Wylie her history of Huss and Jerome–and the Waldenses and Albigensians. Entitled Ellen White and the Historians.

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It must indeed be an interesting book, rich of solid information. I won’t be able to read it because I can now do only Audible books due to my precocious eyesight limitation imposed by macular degeneration. But I had access throughout the years to more than enough proof in the literature to make sure that I am no longer foolished by the Adventist Cult regarding EGW and her claimed status of “God’s messenger,” aka prophet.

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While I appreciate your scholarship on this, @doncasebolt, and find your work interesting to a point, (like @GeorgeTichy I’ve learned enough about EGW to draw my own conclusions on her work) I disagree with the idea that it’s pointless to try holding EGW et. als., accountable for their misguided efforts because they “were doing the best they could”.

To use the extreme example, is it wrong to hold Hitler accountable for the atrocities of WWII?

After all, he only had the best of intentions and was trying to make the world a better place, at least according to his “misguided” personal philosophy.

Further I don’t believe the founders of the SDA denomination were doing the best they could, as this is something people very rarely do.

The flesh is willing right?

In Adventism’s case, I don’t need to tell you that there is ample evidence that EGW and the people in her inner circle had serious doubts about the source of her inspiration and that she herself wondered if she was doing the work of demons.

The fact that none of this was admitted publicly, and that the denomination leadership has now embarked on a campaign to rehabilitate her reputation and reinstate a cultic reverence for the near inerrancy of her work, convinces me that there is no need for me to offer my forgiveness in this matter as none of them think they’ve done anything wrong, nor have they seen fit to ask me for what would undoubtedly be seen as an unwanted, and even condescending, gift.

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Therefore you certainly know how many hours of precious time we put into reading and studying the sources of info that appeared in the past few decades. You also must have experienced the accompanying feelings of betrayal on the part of the Church that you were told was God’s remnant Church on this planet. All baloney, all a farce, all a lie. You certainly felt like me, that I was belonging not to a Church, but to a cult.

Well, there is hope for you though. Just wait for that volume of the TGC to make it to your mail box and read it again… :roll_eyes: :joy: :rofl: If I get one, I will forward it to Jeremy @vandieman . :wink: :wink: Imagine the “saturation” he would experience if everyone did this… LOL

I already have a plan for how best to use my copy of TGC, if and when it arrives, and while I don’t want to be overly descriptive, it suffices to say that it will save me a few bucks on my next trip to Costco….

:wink:

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I respectfully disagree. In my opinion Dr. Kellogg was mistaken about a few matters relating to health but he seemed to be sincere and possess a much kinder nature than EGW and some of her relatives.

EGW on the other hand possessed an attitude that was similar to the infamous late senator Joseph McCarthy.

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I intentionally did not include the good doctor as part of EGW’s inner circle.

Yes, early in his career, she nurtured him more than some of her own children-or at least the.one she left behind in order to further her career as a Christian celebrity.

However, she clearly turned on him near the turn of the 20th century when the GC, with the concerted efforts of Mrs. White and Willie, did their best to wrest The San from Dr. Kellogg.

Failing that they set about to destroy him using the most powerful tool in their box of tricks, disfellowship.

Ultimately this didn’t work either and only The Great Depression slowed, and then finally stopped his cash-generating juggernaut.

On a personal note, one of my dad’s friends become a close business associate of Dr. Kellogg and traveled extensively with him in his youth. He agreed with most, I think, that while the doctor had some very questionable ideas about “modern” medicine, he was scrupulous to a fault and was tirelessly genuine in his efforts to promote healthy living.

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If the average person behaved in some of the ways that EGW did they would likely be looked upon as morally corrupt, but EGW hid behind the titles of 'more than a prophet, messenger and so on.

quote=“NY_G_PA2, post:32, topic:23506”]
he was scrupulous to a fault and was tirelessly genuine in his efforts to promote healthy living.
[/quote]

Yes, he did seem to be an honest man who had integrity.

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Don’t be silly Bruce, just get those bananas and eat them while you read the book gifted so generously to you by Uncle Ted. ;

I think that persons like Joan of Arc, Bernadette of Lourdes, etc. completely believed that they were guided by supernatural beings and had no intention of deceiving their contemporaries. Joan of Arc was martyred for her belief. I don’t think that in reality she was guided by the angels and saints that she thought were guiding her. Particularly, since one of the saints she listened to was a legendary person that never existed. EGW states that she put in quotation marks the direct speech of her angel guide but years ago .Ron Graybill documented that even the quoted words of EGW’s angel guide were copied from various Protestant authors. Again I recommend Dr Donald McAdams book on how EGW copied historians of Huss and Jerome; it’s by Acorn press and called “Ellen White and the Historians.”

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The capacity of the human mind for self-delusion is quite broad. I remember when I was a lad, the sabbath school class was on the Samuel legend. Later that week during the night I distinctly heard my name called. I didn’t respond the first time. I heard it again and responded with “speak Lord, your servant is listening”. But then there was silence. As an impressionable 8 year old I actually thought I received a message from “god”. Throughout my youth, I prayed and continually searched for signs from God about certain decisions in my life (friendships, school, career, dating, baptism, etc.). As a credulous youngster I attributed various coincidences to messages from beyond.

Many people claim to have received messages from God. Many were sincere. I see no evidence that any received any actual messages from God.

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You are describing the phenomenon of delusion. One can sincerely believe a delusion; in fact, in order to be actually deluded, one must fully believe it. Doubt is the enemy of delusion and must be quashed before it lifts its ugly head. Honestly searching for evidence is the death knell for delusion

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