Catholic or Adventist? Abuse in Common

I guest we would have to charge Jesus with discrimination also as he chose all men for his disciples. This argument that women are being discriminated against is a fallacy that is not rooted in scripture.

If God was to let this mindset in heaven, he would be charged with discrimination because a female is not a part of the God head.

This issue is noting but the workings of Satan to divide the church.

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No one can preempt the Holy Spirit authority. If God calls a women the preach the gospel she will preach it. No man can stop it.

A call to the ministry is not to seek man’s recognition but Gods’. A man is also not ordained if he is not married.

So, then, arbitrary distinctions having to do with gender or marital status are the determinants for ordination, trumping the Spirit’s gifting. That is preempting the Holy Spirit’s calling in the eyes of the church. But, if the recognition of one’s gifting doesn’t matter… then don’t ordain anyone, male or female.



but if it were true, would formers ever acknowledge it…this may be a case where denials can’t be taken at face value…

Well, I can only speak to my own (and people who I know very well), experience. Among my friends, we’re very honest about religious and spiritual issues.

But, it sounds as if formers can’t be trusted to be honest, at least in your view.

If I thought the SDA church was correct in their doctrines, I would go there, as would the people that I’m aware of.

The stories that SDA’s put forth about formers are just not the reality. But, we’ve heard it all, more than once. :wink:


well, don’t forget, i’ve been a former myself…in looking back, i can see what was really going on…i also have a few friends who are formers…probably every adventist knows of at least a few formers…of course, not all formers can be expected to be the same…

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Okay…you were a former and you returned to Adventism. If I believed it, I would just go back to the SDA church. It wouldn’t be a problem for me to return, if I belived their doctrines. But, I would venture to guess that most formers who left for doctrinal reasons, would never go back. But, if they did return, fine by me!

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well, my experience is that formers don’t leave over doctrines…usually it’s an extreme personality conflict with a pastor or somebody at church, or an episode of unfairness or hypocrisy they’ve witnessed…a lot of times it’s lifestyle issues…people just don’t want to give up meat, coffee, or doing their own thing on saturdays…and of course, egw is a big factor because she’s so unyielding on lifestyle issues…

Oddly, that’s almost verbatim the same talking points that the Mormons give for their members leaving…but never doctrine. :thinking:

What I can say is, I left for doctrine and I know personally more than 2 dozen people who left over doctrine…not counting the testimonies of so many on line. The people that I’ve know who left were living the lifestyle, going to church on Saturday, and only followed EGW in some form or fashion, as most Sevies do. They were generational, life-long Adventists. They didn’t have any bad experiences, or issues with anyone at church, etc. But, the doctrinal problems became so glaring, that it just wasn’t possible to stay in the SDA church.

Also, I never had an issue with anyone, or the other things you mentioned. I did my own thing as far as diet, as most Sevies do these days.



You must not have thought this through. Yes, Jesus chose all men to be his disciples, but the reason should have been obvious. It would have been impossible for a mixed group of men and women to travel with Jesus. How would they sleep or use the restroom without causing a major pushback from the ultra conservative Jews of the time? It was, at least in part, a practical consideration and not a spiritual one.


For yourself- this issue means this…for some of us, no. God will sort things out when the church and it’s officials cannot.

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FYI…there are a few that have been ordained sans marriage.

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The first sentence is arrogant. The second is misleading.

I do not understand how come discriminators of women are not ashamed of themselves. It’s really weird.


I wonder if there is a way of having ALL discriminators coming here at the same time and not one at a time. Who has the time and the energy to keep repeating the same arguments over and over again for those people who discriminate against women? I am, honestly, tired of it.


i don’t doubt this, but i think it’s unusual…most church people i know, adventist or otherwise, aren’t into doctrine…they couldn’t explain or defend half of what they supposedly believe…and most church sermons for that matter, other than at my home church, which is known for being the most conservative adventist church in canada, have very little doctrinal content…a typical catholic or united church sermon, or message, is about being a lovable part of the community…mormon services often stress bringing up children consistently…the presbyterian messages i’ve heard lately have no evident theme…the most recent one i’ve heard was an update on various drives to raise funds for needed renos…

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I am thinking that we should simply develop a “script” and “cut and paste”…will save all kinds of time and aggravation. I have started to shorten my replies to those who are blinded to discrimination towards women. They are like horses wearing blinders…only seeing straight ahead of them and oblivious to the rest of the world.

Maybe something like this:

Helps to keep on the “Straight and Narrow”. Stylish, no? :wink:


Most church people that I know are into Scripture, they know their Bibles very well. I’ve been to several churches where the sermon is a verse by verse study of a book of the bible. The first church that I attended after leaving Adventism was a non-denom. It was the first Sunday of the new year. They were starting the book of Matthew. As you know it begins with the genealogy of Jesus. When I saw what the sermon was going to be, I was a little disappointed because I thought it might be a bit dry and boring. But, it wasn’t at all. The pastor was extremely knowledgeable about the topic (all his sermons are this way). I was disappointed when it was over because it was so interesting.

So my experience has been far different than what you have encountered. There are lots of very serious Biblical “students” out here…reading and studying the Word. It’s life-giving and so very interesting and compelling.

The pastors that I’ve heard in person, have been very much about Scripture and not a bunch of fluff. And I’ve found pastors on line as well that are extremely serious about God’s word. Handling it with great care and respect. They take their calling very seriously.


I finished reading Trimm’s history of ordination in the church, and it is well researched and presented truthfully.

These are difficult issues, and one has to be strictly truthful, something that the Equal Ordination site appears not to be.

I differ from you in this respect. If Trimm has given the subject a truthful and accurate account of the events, then where is the bias? Everything must be examined on its own merit, and not because it appears the person has an association with (in this instance the GC).

The GC for instance is closely connected with holding church services and Sabbath school on Sabbath morning, does that mean if I attend these meetings, I am biased toward the GC? Sounds silly doesn’t it?

Today I just discovered that there is a word “compofluous” which means something which seems utterly ridiculous, yet is a reality. We can all learn something new.

To a young person (if your picture tells a story correctly), after having listened to the messages of recent times telling a story of women being ordained to the gospel ministy, to discover that in our history, women were not ordained in exactly the same way as men would be unnerving. No it cannot be, I have heard and read so much telling me differently. To such a young person it would seem compofluous. I get that. That is why I would like you to look at Trimm’s account, it might shed some light on what you have been told.

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In the church since the earlier seventies, I heard nothing of this “discrimination” that today flaunts itself in sacerdotal clothes. Nor in the eighties, and only started in the nineties. Then come the 2000’s and suddenly all hell breaks loose as these years roll by. Even the so-called champions of this new movement had nothing to do with this unless it was just a quiet whisper. Satan in busy but undetected by many.


Have you taken note that the 10th commandment does not apply to women which means wives are allowed to covet their next door neighbor’s husband and not incur the wrath of God or is there an unexplained reason as well?