Church Member Pens Open Letter Regarding His Non-Compliance


(Shane Smith) #21

I feel that if we could encourage enough ordinary office holders like Douglas to also pen similar open letters and post them electronically and physically to the GC compliance committees, along with Union and Division leaders, we could have an avalanche of mail that would help the GC see the error of their way. We absolutely need at this crucial time in our history, to make such a stand, otherwise I fear a debilitating split in our church. Such a split would probably not result in two clear camps, but multiple enervating groups, and beside these, many members simply deciding to opt out of membership entirely. May the Lord lead us through this impasse.


(James Wilson) #22

Peter points out that ...Sometimes there are things in Paul’s letters that are hard to understand. And some people explain these things falsely. They are ignorant and weak in faith. They also falsely explain the other Scriptures. But they are destroying themselves by doing that. - 2 Peter 3:16

It should be clear from Paul’s letters that he recognized and valued the leadership and teaching role held by some of his contemporary women e.g. Phebe, Priscilla, and Junia. To take statements like “Women should remain silent in church meetings. They are not allowed to speak.1 Corinthians 14:34 as a general rule that should be enforced regardless of context, seems to be the kind of thing Peter is warning against.


(Phyllis Dujon) #23

I am a member of the Peachtree City Adventist church in Georgia. I have served in various positions in the church over the years and now feel it is time for this old gal to leave the running and planning of the church to the younger people who most likely are more qualified than I. I believe in women’s ordination and I do not like what the GC has done with this compliance law. I would be proud to put my name on your letter as I feel the same way you do. It’s a sad day when members are asked to “Spy” or “tattle” on someone they disagree with. What has happened to our church? I thought we were entering the 21st century but it seems we have regressed. Please Lord, come soon.


#24

This is not the problem here. The problem I see is when people say that Paul speaks according to his cultural views without bringing any evidence. And I see that the people saying that are the people trying to dismiss the message that Paul is conveying.

I say it is troubling.

The spirit of the law never goes contrary to the letter of the law. So, if the Holy Spirit guides you, not only will you end up doing what the letter of the law says (which is the minimum) but you will also understand its extensions, as Jesus showed it in his sermon on the mount.


(Ian m fraser) #25

When the GC moves to Africa and is surrounded by believers in MH they will stop worrying about letters like this one and others. Compliance committees will. Be out of work. MH believers will move to Africa too.


(Frankmer7) #26

Explain the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Why and how would the life giving Spirit in bringing people to God, and empowering their life in Christ, be no different than the letter of the law?

Why would Paul liken the move from the letter to the Spirit as the husband of a wife dying, so she is free to marry another? If one presses the analogy, it is as if Paul was saying the age of life under the Law and its letter was over… it has died. Human beings were free to marry another, Christ and the Spirit.

Put people under the letter of the Law, and you put them under something that kills spiritual life. Something that has passed off the scene as the way that God relates to human beings. A spiritual dead end. It characterizes and describes just what is going on in our denomination, the attempt to bring people under policy and compliance to the letter of such. It reeks of spiritual sickness and death.

Additionally, if the letter and the Spirit never contradict, then explain why polygamist situations are often left alone by missionaries when the commandant speaks against adultery? Or, why is Rahab commended for acting in faith in the NT, when the letter of the commandment would say she lied? The letter of the Torah, and indeed the entire bible, supports the continuation of slavery. Why did Christians in the 19th c., help lead the abolitionist movement in England and the U.S.? There are more examples.

The Spirit leads to a higher ethic, beyond the letter, ultimately seen in the self giving love of Christ at Calvary. Nowhere is this found in any of the 10 commandments.

Frank


(Shane Smith) #27

Ian, I live in Africa sometimes and move amongst a lot of Africans here in Europe as well, and I know women in Africa take a large roll in the church, and I know one woman in Kenya that Pastors 11 churches. So the GC may find it has more of a popular back-lash than it counted on.


(George Tichy) #28

Does the GC (now KGC) already have available those application forms to register as a heretic or non-compliant member? If so, where can I get one? I want to register asap!!!
:roll_eyes:


(George Tichy) #29

What happened to our Church? Its General Conference has been hijacked by a group of male headshipers who have absolutely no respect for women or for decency! They call themselves Christians, but they are actually a bunch of cheap discriminators of women, an embarrassment to the SDA Church.

I hope the Unions will be strong enough to kick out any “KGC Inspector” that lands at their doors. Don’t let them even get in! They are all “personas non gratas,” and should be sent back to the KGC Headquarters to report to Ted Wilson that his Soviet Style governing is not going to intimidate the Unions.

And, please, in 2020, vote those guys OUT!!! They are LGTarians who are taking the Church backwards and supporting heresies like perfectionism, headship, and who knows what else!!!


(Ian m fraser) #30

Glad to hear that Africa has supporters of WO. However it seems that most delegates from Africa to GC do not. South America may be a good new home for the GC where support for MH is also strong. The GC just needs to move out of the NAD and invite all MH followers to come with them. Make NAD MH free!


(Adam) #31

Robin,

You seem to assume that Mr. Palmer has not done anything to address the treatment of women in his own area. I’m not sure how you infer that from his letter but it seems unfair. My assumption would be that someone who pens a letter like this has likely made other efforts to support women in ministry. But without knowing specifics we’re both just making assumptions.

Additionally, if you’d done any research you’d know that Meadow Glade does in fact have an ORDAINED woman pastor on staff.


(Jeffrey Kent) #32

“women must be silent in Church”

Policy or principle?


(Steve Mga) #33

Adventist Today –
Please see the article written by an Indian regarding Pres.
Wilson’s upcoming trip to India.
Quite good.
Insight into how Leaders in 3rd World cultures are perceived
and treated.


(George Tichy) #34

Brilliant!
Just imagine the peace we would have without discriminators of women constantly creating trouble, preventing women from fulfilling their call!


(Harry Allen) #35

Dear Douglas M. Palmer:

As a church officer, with varied positions, playing critical roles, not only have you, certainly, offended our great and hard-working General Conference, its members, and its elders—especially Elder Wilson—and not only have you belittled the hard work of the ADCOM, as it strives to create compliance in religious practice, within our blessed denomination…but you have given me the perfect template for writing my own letter of non-compliance.

Hear, hear!

HA


(Ian m fraser) #36

Thank you for amplifying the new goal of MAKE NAD MH FREE.


#37

According to you?

When Paul spoke, did he make it a matter of principle, or just a matter of policy (of course, we have to understand what he meant first)?

Is there a way to find out?

And if it is a principle, are we willing to follow it?


(Frankmer7) #38

I read it, Steve. It’s simply sickening to see how off base this administration is, and how blind he and they are to the type of leadership that Jesus spoke of, and modeled himself.

“The Gentiles lord it over one another, but it shall not be so among you”…unless, of course, you are an SDA GC administrator. Bottom line…even if he doesn’t personally harbor this attitude, TW should be savvy enough to realize how out of line this looks with who Jesus is, and what he said. Even from the simple point of view of optics, this is an epic fail!

Thanks…

Frank


(ROBIN VANDERMOLEN) #40

Adam,

My critique of Mr Palmer was not meant to be an indictment of him personally, but of the Oregon Conference (where he is a church member,) which has been “derelict, delinquent, disregardful and dawdling in ordaining their women pastors. “

Your information that MEADOWGLADE CHURCH in the Oregon Conference has an ORDAINED women pastor actually raises further troubling questions.

Firstly I shall have to applaud my dear friend Pastor Rick Bowes, senior pastor at MEADOWGLADE, for allowing the ordination ceremony
of a women pastor in his church’s sanctuary!

Secondly how come the Oregon conference refuses to ordain my very dear friend, Pastor Kara Dale Johnsson, the lead pastor at the 1200 member Sunnyside Church, while employing an ordained women pastor at MEADOWGLADE?

Does the ordained woman pastor at MEADOWGLADE have more privileges, perks, salary or other prerogatives than does my friend Kara?

Thirdly, how come the Oregon Conference refused for years to ordain my other dear friend and country woman, Pastor Shirley Allen ( recently retired after years of pastoral duties in the Oregon Conference.))

That the Oregon Conference would employ an ordained women pastor at one of their churches while refusing to ordain two of my women pastor friends is troubling indeed !

What is their explanation for this??


(Frankmer7) #41

It’s obviously not meant as an across the board directive or overarching principle for all women in church meetings. Otherwise, Paul would never have given counsel for women’s head coverings while prophesying in the assembly. That means women spoke and preached. That’s in 1 Cor. His references to woman such as Phoebe, Junia, and Priscilla, who was the leader of the church that met in her house, would also make no sense if all women had to remain silent. Priscilla also helped to teach Apollos, something that contradicts the statement that women should never teach men in the church.

Whatever Paul meant by these prohibitions, and there are various scholarly interpretations, it is very difficult to accept them as hard and fast rules for all time and circumstances, considering how they don’t match up to his practical counsels and references to female church involvement in his other letters. To take them as such is to treat the issues and the biblical text on a superficial level, at best.

Thanks…

Frank