Then what does ordination for men have to do with ministry?
Krystalynn, thank you for your transparency. I’m sure your students, all of whom have a high meter for recognizing when someone is not authentic, appreciate your thoughtful way of looking at life. The Apostle Paul also struggled in his journey.
Uh, then why in the world did you say it baffles you why women in ministry keep complaining about being treated as inferiors? If you agree with Doug Bachelor and read his stuff, then you know the level of denigration women in ministry are exposed to. Did you just forget Doug Bachelor and his arguments when you wrote the first post? Now I’m baffled.
Amen! Let’s preach this often and loudly. Pastors are servants and they do not exercise spiritual “authority” over their parishioners. This is one of the stumbling blocks, in my opinion, of the whole WO issue.
Ah, Carolyn, you devil you. Love it!
This is what “headship” looks like to me after having read many articles, blog posts and discussions.
For me, I left the church a year or so ago. I am no longer a member of the SDA denomination. I cannot in all conscience be a part of something that thinks I am sick or disturbed - yes I am part of the LGBTI community. I consider myself a follower of Jesus still. I had to separate God from the “church” for myself. As for those who consider themselves the only church - remember that St Augustine of Hippo had the same problem with a fractious church - see quote: "The clouds roll with thunder, that the house of the Lord shall be built throughout the earth; and these frogs sit in their marsh and croak ‘We are the only Christians!’ " St Augustine of Hippo. see other quotes : “Non believers tend to regard evangelicals as a legion of moral police determined to impose their notion of right behaviour on others. To them, Christians are anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-women - probably anti-sex, for that matter - and most of them home-school their children to avoid defilement. Christians sometimes help with social problems, say by running soup kitchens and homeless shelters, but otherwise they differ little from Muslim fanatics who want to enforce sharia law on their socities”. Philip Yancey. “I quit being a Christian … I remain committed to Christ… but not to being a “Christian” or to being a part of Christianity. It’s simply impossible for me to “belong” to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group” Anne Rice. She cited Christians’ antagonism to gay people as a major factor in her decision. Phiip Yancey. Also, I agree with Rob Bell - "Christian’ makes a poor adjective”
― Rob Bell . I agree with Anne Rice as well. I want no part of the organized church.
Yes it does in a way. Thanks for pointing that out.
Your essay gives poignant voice to the very human collateral damage that the vote regarding women’s ordination has and will continue to have caused.
You have been denied something for no other reason than you are a woman, and that denial is purported by some to be the will of the god you worship. Not an easy pill to swallow.
Some like Birder, will huff and grumble, and say the vote in SA wasn’t’ about women serving as ministers, it was *ONLY about ordination. People like Sandy will agree whole heatedly. Birder will then happily move along to impunging your character and questioning whether you are fit to serve as a Pastor at all, because EGW, or something. They just don’t, or won’t see why ordination, with alll its perks, (ie, you can be the duly elected president of a conference and be officially recognized as such, but oh wait, you’re a woman, so you can’t,) would matter. They weren’t for it anyway, so humph. They do not seem to get that this vote did not happen in a vacuum or that it would most certainly have real life consequences for real live people, people like you. I find this callous.
There are lots of people like this in the SDA church. They will make your life a living hell. Do you really want or need to put up with this for the foreseeable future?
You appear to have an overwhelming desire to minister to and help others. Please thoughtfully consider all options. You may very well find you are a better fit elsewhere as a member of another organization. Doing so may very well set you free to achieve greater things.
My best to you as you continue to struggle with this.
It is difficult when one “feels” or “believes” one has out grown their church.
Especially the Church in their local area.
And when one has been placed in a responsible position by that Church Body, or Group.
BUT, we have to remember, the ONLY reason a “Church” is organized, is that it is Organized For Service.
And, since we are part of “Church” we individually are part of Church to do Service Work.
Our Discernment Project, given by God, is to Discover what to begin with at Service Work.
That is only the beginning because we will find additional gifts, develop additional gifts, and our Service Work activities will change periodically.
There are 2 types of Service Work – 1. those we are assigned. 2. those we Volunteer for.
Leadership is by and large something we Volunteer for. We say, "Let me try that, Let me do that, Can I assist you with that, and one learns by Apprenticeship.
Sometimes we have to take a Lateral step when situations become tense.
A Lateral Step is NOT Quitting! It is just One Step away from what we were doing, so we can easily step back into that Role Again.
Jesus said I have other “sheep” in other “sheep folds”. Jesus said nothing discouraging about “visiting” the other Shepherds in the other sheep folds. Getting to know those sheep. Maybe even playing with those sheep. Perhaps at sometime bringing some of those sheep to play with the sheep in one’s own sheepfold.
That is why it is important NOT to leave Church. Even though at times we might feel beyond our sheep fold. We meet Jesus there. And that is what is most important. Also, it is important to be the Role Model we want others to be.
It AINT always easy!!
Headship view of the Godhead is NOT – Three in One, One in Three.
Just as you pictured is Headship view of God and Christ.
Which is not Biblical.
It is also NOT the Nicene Creed view of the Godhead.
It is also NOT the Irish view of St. Patrick.
Do keep in mind, Birder, the opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty, as beautifully noted by Anne Lamott.
That is a dilemma, to say the least. But what if those who valued equality became the best at inviting others to share that vision and to do it within the context of a church that is struggling to fulfill the gospel commission to teach everything that Jesus taught? Would that 40% (who approved of allowing WO) eventually become 60%? And if that were to happen, would that be a good thing or a bad thing? Those who would do unjustly, thinking it to be in the service of God, need the constant, gentle, correcting influence of those with a clearer vision of Christ and His teachings.
"And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up."
"And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works."
This is a time to build up and to gather stones together. I think we are up to the task.
Thanks to Krystalynn, Marianne, Billie, Betty, Sandy, Sandra, Kendra, Courtney, Norma, Elizabeth, Maria, Hyveth, Raewyn, Andrea, Inga, Heather, Beryl, Patty, Mary, Sheila, Kessia, Dilys, Jean, Jennifer, Carmen, Anita, Rachel, Tara, …etc. Please add your name and the name of any others to this list as your memory allows…
That isn’t a very good description of the actual physical instances preventing one from answering Gods “call” as she put it. In fact its chock full of ethereal mumbo jumbo.
That is my basic understanding of the vote and I may not be correct, that much I’ll admit but I’m still trying to really understand all of this, which is the part you wouldn’t know because you can’t read my mind.
Now on the consequences of the vote, I can see the hurt feelings and how it led and continues to lead to division and people leaving…etc. I’m not blind to that and that makes me sad. Also, keep in mind, just because I don’t view things like you do, does not mean that I can empathize with Krystalynn. It also doesn’t mean I agree with people telling her she’s going to hell for being a female pastor, that’s just ridiculous, very disrespectful, condescending, and hurtful and totally unacceptable…etc.
Anyways, just wanted to give my perspective as it is, not as you think it is since you named me in your comment.
Always saying something to justify discrimination of women, eh? You are so old now, and still didn’t learn better…
Krystalynn, I am not sure I have adequate words to respond beyond this. I hear you. I am encouraged. Thank you!
I apologize if I misunderstood you intent. I recognize that the church is not perfect because it is composed of imperfect members. We should not expect to be treated better than Jesus did, but we stay because there is no other place to go, as Jesus’ disciples said when He asked them if they were going to leave with the majority who did (after the “Bread of Life” sermon).
And I’m sorry that some misguided Jehu’s treated you as they did. Going to hell? Give me a break! How can anyone make such comments? Only God knows the heart. I may disagree with your position on the role of women in the church, but I certainly don’t think you are a disgrace; and your eternal destiny is something that only God knows.
I graduated from RLA back in the mists of time, before you were born. If I can make it back to my 50th reunion in a few years, you might still be there. I promise to be nice to you.
No, Sandy, I cannot read your mind, but I can read your posts…
Thank you for clarifying your position and affirming that you are a caring person.
I left the SDA church over 30 years ago when this battle was just beginning. I find it disappointing that this is still an issue.
Many unordained men have ministries of various kinds. Ordination is only necessary for a minster of the Gospel, as a recognition of their authority in the church.