Concerned Academics Write Open Letter to Solomon Maphosa Concerning Paul Charles and Hopeson Bonya

Spectrum Website
#1

A group of academics in and with ties to the Southern Africa-Indian Ocean Division of Seventh-day Adventists (SID) has written the following open letter to Acting President Solomon Maphosa, who assumed the presidency when SID President Paul Ratsara resigned last week amid an ongoing academic qualifications scandal. The signers of this letter have stated that despite many requests for intervention from the General Conference and the SID, they have received no response from either entity. As a result, they have made the letter public.

It is of further note that the Kwa-Zulu Natal Free State Conference in South Africa issued a letter to the KNFC constitutency stating, "In the light of the recent and ongoing media reports concerning allegations of academic fraud within our Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership, we wish to further reassure you that measures are in place in order to ensure that no worker within this Conference holds any fraudulent or invalid qualification which could contribute towards the tarnishing of the image of this Conference and the Seventh-day Adventist Church in general." -Ed

Looking Forward: A Statement from Concerned Adventists who work in Academia

Dr. Solomon Maphosa Executive Secretary & Acting President Southern Africa-Indian Ocean Division of Seventh-day Adventists27 Regency Drive, Route 21 Corporate Park Nellmapius Drive, Irene 0174 Pretoria, South Africa

CC: SID Chief Financial Officer (Goodwell Nthani)SID Education Director (Dr. Ellah Kamwendo)GC Associate Secretary (Pastor H Moorooven)SAU President (Dr David Spencer)

We would like to express our sadness over the developments the Church in the SID is currently faced with. The issues surrounding the academic qualifications of Pastors Paul Ratsara and Paul Charles have been demanding a lot of attention and energy from the church and has indeed distracted us from focussing on the important business of the church.

We have also noted the statement issued by the General Conference on May 31, 2016 on the resignation of Dr. Ratsara and the fact that you will serve as Acting SID President until the election of a new President.

We would like to commit ourselves to prayer and support for you and your leadership team at the SID as you serve in these challenging times.

There are indeed many challenges that would require your leadership as we, as a church, work towards appropriate and sustainable solutions.

We would like to indicate that the following matters would require your urgent attention as the SID family moves forward and also finds healing from the pain that it has been experiencing

1. Since it has now been determined that Pastor Paul Charles does not have the required formal training (academic qualifications) to serve as a minister in the Adventist Church, it would be prudent that his services as the Director of Communication, Public Affairs and Religious Liberty at SID be terminated. And this is not primarily because of the academic qualifications, but in light of the way he misrepresented his educational qualifications. This does not only apply to the qualifications from the Freedom Institute of Theological Studies and Research (India) but also to his claims that he has since studied for a second PhD. It is our strong belief that he does not have the moral and ethical characteristics and the integrity to continue to serve as a Minister in the Adventist Church

2. The now widely reported revelations that Dr. Hopeson Bonya (SID Vice President) compiled major sections of the UNISA doctoral thesis of Pastor Ratsara raises a number of issues that would need urgent attention. Dr. Bonya’s contribution to the PhD thesis (unless it was known and declared to the University) was in violation, on the part of Pastor Ratsara, of guidelines on how doctoral research work should be done. It was also an unethical act by Dr. Bonya, and this should neither be overlooked nor taken lightly, no matter what the circumstances surrounding these activities were.

It is therefore our firm belief and recommendation that the following steps be taken:

a) A proper investigation be conducted by the SID to get all the details surrounding the compilation of Pastor Ratsara’s dissertation

b) The SID Ethics Committee be tasked with considering the behaviour of both Pastor Ratsara and Pastor Bonya in this matter and recommend appropriate action be taken.

c) The University of South Africa (UNISA) be encouraged to conduct its own investigation into the matter and that the SID (as well as the GC) provide full support to the process through the provision of whatever documents and information UNISA might require.

3. It is also highly recommended that the SID (and all the Union Conferences/Missions that fall within its territory) develop and implement systems that would assist in ensuring that the church does not experience similar events in future. The systems would deal with, among others, the following:

a) The verification of academic qualifications of church employees according to the laws/rules/regulations and standards of the country where the Union Conference/Mission is located

b) Transparency and oversight in relationships between colleagues (line managers/subordinates) within the organisation. This is because of the numerous questions about how Dr. Bonya could be party to the doctoral work of Pastor Ratsara without anyone else knowing. If it was known by more than the two persons involved, what would have been the appropriate course of action to be taken by those who knew?

c) It might also be worth looking into broadening the scope of activities of the SID Education Department to go beyond just promoting Adventist Christian education. Apart from focusing on verifying workers’ qualifications, there would also be a need by the Department to assist church workers aspiring to upgrade their academic qualifications at recognized institutions, preferably, in the SID territory. There are many Adventist academics who would be prepared to tutor/supervise church workers studying on a part-time basis. Such academics should be conversant with the Higher Education system and related policies currently operational in the country. Perhaps a preliminary survey of workers needing such assistance would have to be conducted, before launching such a programme.

It is crucial that the SID leadership, in an attempt to move forward, acts to resolve these issues in a manner that would generate the high levels of trust and respect from the church membership. The recent events have led to deep erosions of trust in church leadership.

We hope and pray that God guides and leads His church as we deal with these matters.

Dr. Willie Chinyamurindi Senior Lecturer: Department of Business Management University of Fort Hare; South Africa

A/Prof. Edward Chamisa Department of Finance and Tax University of Cape Town; South Africa

Mr. Clinton Plaatjes Executive IT Country Manager South Africa

Mr. Pitso Tsibolane Lecturer: Department of Information Systems University of Cape Town, South Africa

Dr. Bernhard Ficker (Retired Academic)Associate Director of Research Cape Peninsula University of Technology Cape Town, South Africa

Dr. Misheck Ndebele School of Education University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, South Africa Dr. Fusi Madela Specialist General Surgeon Addington Hospital University of KwaZulu-Natal Durban, South Africa

Dr. Ron du Preez Retired & Part-Time Pastor-Arizona Conference, NAD & Adjunct /Online Professor: Adventist University of Africa (Kenya); Andrews University (Mich., USA) Southern Adventist University (Tenn., USA)

Prof. Mziwoxolo Sirayi Executive Dean: Faculty of the Arts Tshwane University of Technology Pretoria, South Africa A/Prof. Dr. John Akokpari Department of Political Studies University of Cape Town, South Africa

Mr. Wandile Bangisi Pastoral Counsellor, Pretoria

Dr. Alvin Masarira, PrEng Structural Engineering Consultant & Visiting Academic:University of Cape Town and University of Johannesburg

Mr. Zolani Simayi Lecturer: Department of Precilinical Studies University of Limpopo, South Africa

Dr. Jeff Crocombe Deputy Vice-Chancellor Pacific Adventist University Papua New Guinea (Lecturer: Helderberg College, South Africa) 2006 - 2011

Mr. Bongani Khonjwayo Researcher and HR Policy Development Specialist Durban, South Africa

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at http://spectrummagazine.org/node/7489
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#4

these open letters by this group of concerned academics is starting to take on the flavor of the messages through the internet by ANONYMOUS…if i were solomon maphosa, i think i’d be offended…i’d think it’s as if these academic don’t believe i’ve thought of any of the remedies they’re suggesting, and that i’m so clueless, i need their input…

SID has just gone through a major, most unfortunate upheaval…they need their space, and time, to determine what’s in their best interests…i don’t think this constant hovering over leaders, as if they can’t lead on their own, is helpful at all…

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#5

Adventist ‘Conman’ as Division Communication Director
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1.Imagine having an exposed conman as the SID Director of Communications, Public Affairs and Religious Liberty. I assume former Dr x 2 now Pastor Paul Charles is the public face of the Adventist Church in multiple Southern African countries. When he meets government officials and the movers and shakers of these countries, he represents what Adventism stands for and argues for fairness, due process, transparency, honesty, integrity, truth finding. All Biblical virtues which appear to be lacking in his personal and public life and has been exposed to the public. And he doesn’t even have a Bachelor’s degree.

2.How difficult is it for the acting SID President to tell Pastor Charles that ‘I want a copy of your transcript from Spicer, your transcripts from where you got your doctorates, a copy of your actual theses with names of supervisors and graduation dates and a copy of all your books on my desk by Monday morning’?

3.So what is up with the SID executive committee? Why are they continuing to tolerate this nonsense that causes them to be mocked by intelligent educated loyal Adventist church members who can spot ‘obfuscation and deceit’ a mile off? In any other responsible professional organization, Pastor Charles would have been forced to resign or fired. So what is SID’s problem? Is Pastor Charles blackmailing them? Does he have dirt on them? When Pastor Charles took the Church to the Labor Tribunal he clearly was not qualified. He had no Bachelor’s degree. Did Pastor Charles also deceive a government agency?

4.From a corporate public relations point of view Pastor Charles is a gross embarrassment. Has Pastor Paul Charles acknowledged any personal wrong doing? Has he asked for forgiveness. Has he shown any remorse? Why is the SID executive committee rewarding him with paid studies to complete his Bachelor? Why the special treatment?

5.And then there is Ted Wilson. Why did Ted Wilson focus on Paul Ratsara and not Pastor Paul Charles? How on earth did Pastor Charles get a call from the World Headquarters? Was the GC executive committee or quarterly Council deceived when the call was issued? Who knew about this?

6.Most troubling in all of this is that Ted Wilson, Paul Ratsara and Paul Charles have taken no personal responsibility for any of their actions. We have Ted Wilson thanking Paul Ratsara for expanding the Church, Paul Ratsara saying ‘I want to work for Jesus’ and silence from Paul Charles. Is this the future of Adventist leadership? Are these men role models for all that is good in Adventism? And why is the World Church tolerating it? Why is the General Conference Executive Committee colluding in all of this? - Edgar

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#6

Edward, I sympathise with your questions. There is a frustrated tone in them.
I think the answers are found in the likes of Jeremy’s comment. There seems to be a lack of sensitivity to upright behaviour. There is an apparent reluctance to call sin by its right name, little sense of the gravity of academic fraud. There seems to be many people who are rushing to defend Ratsara & Company. They introduce all kinds of excuses for these men. They try to protect them by offering other work or study programs.
Ted Wilson often preaches and writes and advises about the necessity to be Spirit-filled so that SDAs can become more Christ-like. Those sentiments now have a hollow ring, coming from a man who dithered about the fraud under his nose and still offers some degree of protection for the guilty. I think it is fair to say that TW would have tolerated the fraud if the public and independent SDA press had not aired the scandal and the group of SDA academics had not written their letter of protest. In other words, he really doesn’t believe the church needs to be Christ-like but rather that it needs to APPEAR to be Christ-like. There is an element of hypocrisy about the scandal. I think, Edward, that is the foundation of your frustration.

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#7

This group of dedicated Adventist academics is to be commended for reminding the church that much still needs to be done, as a matter of urgency, in addressing the present situation in the SID.

The view of some is that an Acting President should simply steady the wheel, and make no major decisions or introduce any significant initiatives. Moreover, some think he should primarily follow instructions from the next organisational tier (in this case, the General Conference.)

Given the very serious questions raised about Ted Wilson’s possible attempts to cover up this matter over the past couple of years, there is a very real risk that with an Acting President now in place in the SID, he will simply force the lid back onto the matter, covering up the remaining mess.

We need to remember the following in particular:

  1. Pr Paul Ratsara has stood aside from the SID Presidency without admitting any wrong-doing, requesting reassignment as a church pastor. The nature of the allegations against him are sufficiently serious that if true, ought to disqualify him from being a church pastor;

  2. Pr Paul Charles remains in office in the SID despite demonstrated serious misconduct;

  3. Perhaps most complex of all, is the situation of Dr Hopeson Bonya. How complicit was he in the alleged misconduct of Ratsura? Was there any coercion involved? And of course he confessed, and while that should not absolve him of consequences, this should at least be taken into account.

And of course there is the question of whether this type of academic misappropriation spreads further within the SID than what we’re presently aware of. A strategy is urgently needed to assess this and deal with the findings. Perhaps there should be a brief period of amnesty during which anyone with dodgy degrees can come forward and explain their situation, and also present a plan of action for remedying the problem?

Thanks again to these academics for reminding us that much still needs to be done.

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#8

The only reason for SID to allow PC to continue with his current employment is to show the redeeming values of unethical behavior. What else can there be?

If PR were allowed his wish to return as a local church minister, what level of unethical behavior disqualifies an appointee for division appointment but not as a local minister.

If HB were allowed to maintain his current appointment knowing his behavior and conduct was less than adequate for an SID VP, what compelling reason would there be that he would not continue with his unethical behavior?

More importantly, how will the church hold TW accountable for what he preaches his constituents should be, knowing the extent of his awareness and failure to separate the spiritual from secular issues as demonstrated by how he attempted to resolve this fiasco?

The organized church at a minimum should resolved these issues before being able to move forward and to assure that the past mistakes are not repeated. After all, wasn’t there a report that this was not the first episode of this nature to happen in SID?

This could not have happened had our leaders been honest and had strong moral values. Let no one claim that there is no one in the SID who does not have the character of what John Wooden the legendary coach of UCLA was noted to say, “The true test of a man’s character is what he would do when no one is watching.”

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#9

Jeremy consider this in the light of your comment. Has the Act/President Pr Maphosa made any statement which would make anyone realize that he and his incoming committee needs a breather? NO. What reason then would anybody have for fronting that reprieve to him? NONE. Is he not part of the old establishment that has been present and kept quiet on this matter for as long as it has been alive and brought to the attention of the SID? YES. Why should he then not be reminded that the concerned group is aware that the matter has only been partially addressed, even, following a rather dishonest way of dealing with it where Dr Ratsara still does not accept any culpability and responsibility for the whole mess, but rather makes a lousy excuse of wanting to allow the church to continue with its business? His reason for leaving still contains dishonesty. Putting him aside though, if the Act/President had put his cards on the table by issuing a statement, even to say that, he is not prepared to do anything about this matter until a substantive person is appointed, then one could understand the logic behind your irritation. In the absence of any of the above, all taken together, the concerned group, of which I am part, are well within their rights to submit the open letter once again. Without prejudice I endorse it.

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#10

Dear
The image of the church should be preserved and as appropriate action must be taken. It appears there is a lot of cover ups in this matter of which its really uncalled for. Mis representation ofaccademic qualification is fraud and of major concern is the issue of Dr Bonya. 2 issues are involved here:

  1. Fraud. This is a misrepresentation of qualification in order to attain or apply for a certain post. The culprit obvioulsly must be stripped of the post.
  2. Discipline. The church has its policy in all levels of its structure concerning issues of discipline. Thats where we see issues of censure, dismember etc. Doesnt a case like this deserve the implimentation of discipline. Are they not supposed to be re baptised as per church policy?
    These pastors have served as ministors in the church and i belive they are not like a newly baptised and as such i believe an appropriate action will rebuild and groom them for the kingdom and there should not be any fear in implimenting any required action.
    Lastly, dont you think there should be a committe that can start looking into academic qualifications and make an audit just as to ensure that such misrepresentations are avoided in future.
    SMB
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#12

Given that communication mandates integrity, Charles should be removed from a position that requires integrity in facilitating honest accurate information to members or the public.

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#14

The one going problem in most organizations is “friends calling friends.” Who you know, not what you know. I convinced that most pastoral calls are based on human networks of friends and favors. Added to this is employment in the SDA system offers secure financial benefits, spiritual prestige and excellent medical care, which leads to self-serving/promoting individuals seeking employment.

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#15

A church organisation is unlike any other corporate body. In the vast majority of corporate bodies the hatchet is both subtly and overtly wielded. In church organisations such as SID workers practically live in each others pockets - they worship together, they visit each other’s homes, they often do evangelism together etc - there is a fair amount of cronyism - believe you me, I have been there. It is an entirely different environment to the normal in this Western world of ours. Some might even ask ‘Do we want to turn the church into a vast corporation?’ Well, whether we would like to or not it has in many instances come down to that.

On top of it all this is Africa where leadership is highly respected - especially where age is concerned - respected often beyond what we in the west would consider downright patronising. Witness the number of leaders in African governments who seem never to retire from office. Remember that amongst many tribes - I have personal experience of the Zulu living outside urban areas - where to look an elder in the eyes when politely asking a question of them would be considered highly disrespectful - and you don’t stand when addressing your elders, you sit on your haunches and wait until you are spoken to - and remain on your haunches - you don’t dare stand up to him! And hardly a generation has passed by where such an attitude is beginning to faintly - very faintly - show a move towards a more western model.

Ethics is a difficult subject for Africa if we are talking about the west’s proud record of Machiavellianism, and the wonderful job the CIA and MI5 did in Iran when Mosadeq proposed some genuine democratic reforms. Once again, believe you me, I have heard these things quoted by Africans as a defence for their own particular way of doing things.

These proud westerners - with their fancy degrees, and their black cohorts who follow after them - all praised and adulated for their Ph.D’s by often ignorant SDA congregants who worship at the feet of such people and consider a degree as an absolute must on the ascendant ladder of corporate Seventh-day Adventism - and something which simply must be mentioned when introducing a speaker.

Some in Africa would surely cry out “give me a Bible and a voice like Alan Paton’s *Khumalo and I will win Africa for Jesus” - and so they would. When most of the expat missionaries left Malawi, remarkable edifices such as the Technical college near Neno hardly survived - roofs fell in and repairs were never done although a carpentry class would be taught below. But evangelism flourished and the church grew - no thanks to degreed pastors from Solusi college! Africans are, after all, born orators . . .

A very large crack in the ethics edifice has been shown to exist not only in the SID but in the GC as well - or so it would seem if we are to believe what Ted Wilson had to say about Paul Ratsara - quite aside from his awful silence regarding Paul Charles. The SDA church worker is going to have to be seen and in verity act in far less chummy manner in the corporate church corridors and that is the hardest battle which will have to be fought yet.

*The consumate Zulu orator, a relative of the humble Anglican priest who has come to Johannesburg to seek for his son Absalom. Khumalo the township orator speaks for all of Africa in Alan Paton’s ‘Cry the Beloved Country’.

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#17

The signatories of this letter are once again to be commended for keeping this matter front and center.

As much as it pains me to have to state the obvious, the administrative structure of the SdA Church has been hijacked by a privileged ecclesiastical caste which values cronyism and political power over basic tenets of morality and ethics. Actions speak louder than words. Your emperor has no clothes.

I long ago left the church, however, I would ask those who remain members why you would possibly tolerate this? Your corporate structure seemingly operates with impunity and without fear of being held accountable. You members are the shareholders of this enterprise. I would suggest it’s about time for a shareholders revolt.

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#19

I agree with you that the signatories of this letter are doing very well in calling for accountability in our church leadership. By saying that our emperor has no clothes I understand you to be saying that our current GC president is a public embarrassment due to how he is handling issues at the GC in general and at the SID in particular and once again I agree with you, as a matter of fact a vote of no confidence is long overdue on Ted Wilson as GC president but thank God because all power is in Him and He is in control and He will soon replace Wilson. I however do not agree with you when you say you left the church, because the Spirit of prophecy in Selected book 2 page 66 onwards says yes there are some things that need to be corrected in God’s Remnant Church, but reforms have to be internal and anyone who calls people out of God’s church is not led by the Holy Spirit.

Also a revolt is not called for, but proper forums and procedures have to be followed in ensuring that misconduct is dealt with accordingly in an orderly manner. Testimonies Volume 4 under UPRIGHTNESS IN DEAL is in harmony with the church policy under THE MINISTERIAL ASSOCIATION on apostacy and moral fall where it is stated that where a minister identifies himself with any activity subversive to the SDA church he has proved himself unworthy of holding sacred office and although one so offending has access to the mercy and pardoning grace of God and is assured of the love and goodwill of the brethren it is clearly indicated that for the sake of the church and maintenance of moral standards the man must plan to devote his life to some other area than the gospel ministry and the church manual under REASONS FOR WHICH MEMBERS CAN BE DISCIPLINED says in clause 8 members shall be disciplined for disorderly conduct that brings reproach to God’s church. If you follow posts on the current SID and GC issues in this Spectrum website, comments indicate that the majority of people no longer want to be led by Ted Wilson which justifies a call for a vote of no confidence through the GC EXCOM.

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#24

Clearly your questions show you have no understanding of the issues at hand. Do you understand how this started and when it started ? Do you know how Mr Charles , Ps Bonya and Ps Ratsara fit together ? I suggest you get all the facts straight before commenting on this subject.

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#30

True learning takes place when there is a change in behavior. Are we going to learn from all this sordid mess. This is more than just Neal Wilson’s Watergate, it is about SDA’s and ethical accountability
The present scandal in the Adventist SID is an opportunity for all of us as Adventist Christians to learn.
This is a defining moment in the history of our church in which every church employee and organization should renew its ethics efforts, a time in which it should foster an active and public discussion about best ethical practices for its ministry and operations. Our meeting agendas should be filled with serious study and prayer about the implications of the current scandals, about how the new economy, globalization, and other developments have changed the structure and public responsibilities of the local and world church. Every part of our church ought to know how it intends to help restore public trust across all our activities.

I believe that every part of our church should be conducting a kind of ethical analysis, which would highlight the inevitable ethical tensions it will encounter and would point the way toward best ethical practices as well as minimum standards.

What should a church organization do when one or more of its members is waist-deep in a public scandal? Here are four suggestions:

  1. Condemn the sin, not the sinner. It is possible to make a strong and timely statement on the ethics of a specific behavior without judging whether the particular behavior has occurred in this case or whether a specific executive is guilty.
  2. Ask the accused to step aside immediately. The credibility of any association depends on the integrity of its leaders. It should be an unwritten law of associations and professional societies that accused individuals step aside temporarily until charges are resolved.
  3. Pull the EXIT lever if guilt is established. The Church must be in the business of building public trust. Define and advocate best ethical practices, not just minimum behaviors.
  4. Keep church ethics current with the changing nature of expectations and professional accountability. We don’t live in normal times. We must have policies which define and explain what conflict of interest regulations are, and stay current with public expectations.
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#31

ETHICAL FOUNDATIONS FOR THE GENERAL CONFERENCE AND ITS EMPLOYEES

Our Values

We value the Bible as the primary reference for life’s direction and qualities.

We value excellence in all that we do.

We value ethical and moral conduct at all times and in all relationships.

We value creativity and innovation in the completion of our mission.

We value honesty, integrity, and courage as the foundation of all our actions.

We value the trust placed in us by colleagues and by the world church membership.

We value people as children of God and therefore brothers and sisters of one family.

https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/documents/article/go/-/ethical-foundations-for-the-general-conference-and-its-employees/

Adventist polity has become largely medicalized.

Excerpt From: “Seeking a Sanctuary, Second Edition: Seventh-day Adventism and the American Dream” by Malcolm Bull. Scribd.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Read this book on Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/book/302372256

Loma Linda University Center for Christian Bioethics

Our Team

http://religion.llu.edu/bioethics/about/our-team

LLU Center for Christian Bioethics

Social Ethics

The Center seeks to provide society with an appropriate framework for controversial and sensitive issues that could arise from poverty, economics, social responsibility and communication, faith-based dilemmas, and morals that could lead to better relationships with each other.

http://religion.llu.edu/bioethics/about/mission-and-vision

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#32

Any person who has a relationship with God would know they are accountable to him for all their actions. When they then come to believe that they are in fact accountable to only themselves, thus in their self-centered mind, God no longer exists.

They can preach sermons based on a script that they learn. In many cases, little of what they say is really what they believe. They live behind a mask, act a part in a play, and in turn receive monetary reward from their subjects (tithe payers).

An acquaintance recently left the church. She told the pastor that she no longer believes EGW is a prophet. In an effort to persuade her to stay he told her that he knows of pastors who don’t believe EGW is a prophet but they still stay. A pastor/leader will, of course, stay to keep being paid just as an insurance salesman will keep selling insurance.

This is sad. There are faithful members of the church who forward 10% of their income; Even if it means sitting in a freezing house with the heating turned off. Even if it means staying home from church because they can’t afford petrol. Even if it means not going to the doctor because they can’t afford the fee. Even if it means not eating as much.

The church has thousands of faithful members. Leaders need to be more accountable. Even if nobody is watching, God is!

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#34

Regarding Ellen White.
Do we put TOO MUCH emphasis on Prophet [fortune telling about the future, is a way a lot of people think of prophet], and not enough on her Pastoral Ministry?
It is true, she received a lot of insight about subjects, and insight about things the brethren should do [write and print papers, purchase property, get into health care, get into a new type education plan, think globally]. On the other hand, when she became more Mature Spiritually, she wrote some great material.
Steps to Christ, Education, Ministry of Healing. Mount of Blessing, Christ Object Lessons.
We focus very little on her Mature Spirituality in a Pastoral context of her life.
Actually, we make it a point to keep ALL these publications away from the General Public.
The ONLY part of her 50+ year ministry we share with the General Public is her Sensationalism – The Great Controversy. We make it a point to NOT share her Jesus with the General Public.
AND, we make it a point to NOT share her Jesus with the general SDA laity, and only mention Desire of Ages.
It is no wonder that Raewyn has a person she knows who thinks of Ellen as she does. I am surprised that she only gave the one example. And perhaps this is why that pastor, without naming names, said even persons going through Seminary and getting a Masters in Religion devalue Ellen White. Jesus is not on the Radar Screen.
Maybe Kenn could comment on this if he thinks I am off track.

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#36

I’ll give you my reason: so many SDAs focus on observing their religion like a shopping list. Check check check. So little emphasis on internalizing, contemplating and understanding the wisdom inherent in the scriptures.

There is a ‘Tao’ of SDAism and it can be worthwhile, just that soooo many SDAs are uptight and won’t listen…They want YOU to understand, aren’t interested in understanding you.

I’ve found having a conversation with an SDA is a bit like talking to an automaton. Programmed and predictable. Also opportunistic to windows of persuasion to their dogma…

Let me talk to a Buddhist/Taoist/Spiritualist any day. At least we’ll probably be able to have an actual conversation.

@bronwynreid

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#39

In all the parts of Cali I have lived in (SECC. NCC, CCC) this has not been true. Much sharing of Steps to Christ, Mount of Blessings, Christ Object Lessons, and Desire of Ages (tho not ever that I can recall Ministry of Healing). Right after the Passion of the Christ many many SDAs here shared both personally and en mass D of A and SC. In Oregon I know a group that does SC and COL in a big way.

Having said that, I do think the books you listed have the biggest impact on my relation to Jesus and people.

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