Continuity and Change: The Dangerous Border the Church Must Cross


#41

I look forward to the day when magnanimity will be extended to the faithful women in the pulpit serving humbly and daily their calling to the ministry.

I look forward to an administration that operates with Christian statesmanship and denounces discrimination, including leading the church family into solutions instead of pushing and ramming removal of voice and vote.

I look forward to the day that a female ordained pastor is not rudely ignored by the refusal to publish her name in the SDA Yearbook as the duly elected president of the SECC.


(George Tichy) #42

After ca 180 year of male hegemony…, well, … sure…, keep looking for those days…
Though I have the intuition that we may see some significant changes as result of this AC. Tables may be turned. We may know what TW’s plan is, but we don’t yet know what GOD’s plan actually is! This is what is going to define things.


(Robert Lindbeck) #43

True leadership owns up to it’s mistakes, regardless of the fact that it was acting in good faith. To perpetuate a wrong so as not to offend is doubling down.


(jeremy) #44

i don’t think this has been done knowingly or openly…if it were, i think we’d split, just like everyone else has…


(Kim Green) #45

Agree, Jeremy…it is an extremely unknown fact.


(Johnny Carson) #46

You’re probably right, but to a thinking person that distinction would hardly matter. A pastor who has faithfully served his congregation with humility and honor for 15 years is not suddenly incapable of serving just because someone finds out.


(Andreas Bochmann) #47

jeremy … I am more concerned about the number of pastors actively involved in sexual violence, physical violence, emotional violence. And there you hardly can say that it is “unknown”!


#48

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ will never arrive… The present administration of the American founded SDA General Conference obliterated that hope. The continuity of Ted Wilson rubbish must be stop. Ted must be terminally removed. Ted has induced Jesus Second Coming as a MYTH. The foul antics from GC call for preemptive strikes.


(Johnny Carson) #49

Somehow, as messed up as things may be at the administrative level of the denomination, I don’t think God is beholden to Ted Wilson for the timeline on his return.


#50

I will bold quote what jumped out at me in flashing neon lights in a recent George Knight article referring to Ted Wilson:

Last year I was falsely accused of calling the General Conference president Hitler, which resulted in the Michigan Conference president banning my book from the Adventist Book Centers under his control. While that accusation was false, it is true that our leader’s tactics are increasingly taking on dictatorial aspects, such as:
  • Deceptively manipulating the voting among GCDO (General Conference and Division Officers) members to get the 2017 document before the Annual Council on a technically “legal” basis.
  • The removal of subordinates who disagree, creating an atmosphere of fear and distrust.
  • Use of financial incentives to those sectors of the church that fall into line and implying financial threats to those who don’t. (It needs to be remembered that the GC distributes a lot of money worldwide.)
  • Having General Conference in-house emails checked to discover “leaks” and other improprieties.
  • Shouting, sometimes extensively, at those who refuse to follow the party line.
  • And so on.

https://spectrummagazine.org/article/2018/08/28/adventism’s-shocking-fulfillment-prophecy

Shouting extensively?

I would tend to dismiss this as hearsay, but somehow I don’t think of George Knight as saying something like that without being sure of his sources. I could be wrong.

But…shouting?

(Of late, I have become, ahem, a minor expert on all things Scientology, and what stands out above all else about Scientology head David “Slappy” Miscavige is that he is a bully. I mean really a bully.)

If Ted Wilson is doing the things George Knight says he is doing, pulling punches about it with delicate language is irresponsible in the extreme.

If Ted Wilson shouts extensively at subordinates this is a very telling sign of dangerous things to come. People have a right to know.

George Knight is trying to keep his finger on the eschatological pulse of Adventism, which has become extremely weak and thready at the worst possible moment!

The liberal side of the church has no discernible eschatology, and the conservative side has thrown in with far Christian Right authoritarianism, which is abusive to its core and extremely dangerous.

Emotional violence must be taken very, very seriously, or there will be hell to pay.

Adventism losing its mandate is a tragedy.

Edit: 10/14/18:


#51

And yet it seems to be happening with banning of voices, votes, and females. Part of the hell is the huge loss of millions of young, who actually should be running the church at their age as did James and Ellen White?

Why aren’t we seeing masses of them at GC and AC? We are already paying hell. If women’s voices are banned, we’ve only just seen the beginning.


#52

I am tempted to tell people to run for their lives. You are about to reap the whirlwind.


#53

This is desperately sad. It will be our “time of trouble.”


#54

And this isn’t happening in a vacuum.

I’m not even sure if I’m a Christian, far less an Adventist, but maybe, just maybe, this means something:

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12


(Johnny Carson) #55

Because us old fogies don’t trust the young and energetic with continuing the work that we’ve been laboring on. They might make a mistake or maybe they’re not mature enough. The excuses we make are endless and arrogant. We treat the maturing church in ways we won’t treat our own children. We treat it as if it is a spoiled 4 year old.


(Cfowler) #56

Good grief! It boggles the mind that people think that the SDA church/people have anything to do with the timing of Jesus’ return. :scream:


(Johnny Carson) #57

I know, right? The idea that we might have some influence on the divine timetable for the universe by choosing to act out our own insecurities… smh amazing…


#58

I’m no Bible scholar…what do you guys make of this?

@cfowler


#59

Jesus said that when the Gospel goes to all the world, then shall the end come. When the harvest is finished He can come. The harvest needs reapers. In other words, women harvesters. To eliminate women from being ordained authorized harvesters, the Church is shooting itself in the foot while claiming to become perfect so Jesus can come. SMH


(Cfowler) #60

Not totally sure what Peter had in mind. But, I’m sure he wasn’t referring to the SDA church. I don’t think a doctrine or belief can be made from one passage. I think there needs to be more verses, not just one to make a blanket statement that “we” can hasten Jesus return, unless Peter was referring to preaching the Gospel into all the world and then the end would come. I’m just speculating on that. Seems possible.

Jesus stated that the gospel would be preached into all the world and then the end would come.

Don’t SDA’s teach that Jesus is waiting on them (to accomplish something, I forget what) before He can come?