Continuity and Change: The Dangerous Border the Church Must Cross

When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.


I believe you’re looking for, “vindicate the character of God before the Unfallen Worlds by perfecting their characters, thus ending The Great Controversy Forever.”

LGT, in other words.

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Yep, that’s it. Couldn’t remember exactly how it was worded.

I think we’re in for a l-o-n-g wait, if that’s the case…like never.


Well, Abraham took Hagar to wife.

That didn’t work out well.

Adventists hope they can do better with the bondwoman than Father Abraham.

When something doesn’t work, do more of the same, harder.


Oddly enough…I believe that TW truly believes that he is going to usher the Second Coming in. At this rate, I will totally concur with you that it may never arrive under this Administration.

"Adventism losing its mandate is a tragedy."

The slide was inevitable…especially with Ted Wilson at the ship’s helm. Adventism isn’t immune to what the other denoms have experienced.

You know that it is part of the Adventist DNA…but after 170 years (and counting) it is stretching to explain why.

Another border…honest disclosure, integrity of our history, accurate reporting.

Seems the the church media tentacles are connected to Ted the Head, and he shakes the tale.
Remember the post SA '015 video clip wherein the talking Head says “nothing has changed”?
Yes, that one, seems it has been removed from access. It by no means is the first-or the last-of church news bits in official releases being massaged, removed, dismissed.

I don’t think asking why, by whom is helpful, but asking are we people so gullible and meek that we will accept, overlook, be apologists?

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Very true, Kim.

The resurgence was the most serious controversy ever to occur within the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States.

One of its chief architects, Albert Mohler, later described it as a “reformation…achieved at an incredibly high cost.”

A part of that cost was the departure of 1900 churches from the convention, which broke away in 1990 to form the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, a moderate Baptist group which affirms women in ordained ministry, and emphasizes the Baptist principles of the autonomy of the local church, the priesthood of all believers, and soul liberty.

Is this part of a larger social undercurrent?

A how-to manual for progressive Christians who want to reclaim the church from intolerant, extremist factions. An important book.”— Julia Scheeres , author of Jesus Land: A Memoir

An unprecedented look inside the battle for religion in America, Steeplejacking: How the Christian Right is Hijacking Mainstream Religion exposes how a strident theocratic minority is attacking—or “steeplejacking”—mainstream churches in order to eliminate progressive voices and take control of America’s historic mainline denominations.

An insider account by two ministers on the front lines of mainstream religion’s longtime shadow war against the religious right, Steeplejacking reveals how conservative renewal groups, backed by a right-wing organization called the Institute on Religion and Democracy, use social wedge issues like homosexuality to infiltrate mainline churches and stir up dissent among members of the congregation, with the goal of taking over the leadership of the church, and ultimately, the denomination.

The book unmasks the covert methods that renewal groups and the IRD use to spread their propaganda, as well as showing how the pastor and other church leaders can act as either provocateurs or protectors in the face of an attack. Churches that have been “steeplejacked” are also examined to illustrate why some are able to withstand an attack, while others succumb.

Featuring a foreword by Michelle Goldberg , author of the bestselling Kingdom Coming , and an introduction by Frederick Clarkson , Steeplejacking shows how mainstream religion can fight back against the insidious tactics of the Christian right.

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I imagine most Adventists don’t have any idea what is at stake here, or even that anything is going on.

Adventists are trained to passivity. They have been filling in the Sabbath School quarterly canned questions and paying tithe all their lives.

Let us never forget what should never be forgotten:

The Adventist Church capitulated to Hitler.

Chris Hedges, American Fascists

Dr. James Luther Adams, my ethics professor at Harvard Divinity School, told us that when we were his age—he was then close to 80—we would all be fighting the “Christian fascists.”

The warning, given to me nearly 25 years ago, came at the time Pat Robertson and other radio and televangelists began speaking about a new political religion that would direct its efforts at taking control control of all institutions, including mainstream denominations and the government.

Its stated goal was to use the United States to create a global Christian empire. It was hard, at the time, to take such fantastic rhetoric seriously, especially given the buffoonish quality of leaders in the Christian Right who expounded it. But Adams warned us against the blindness caused by intellectual snobbery. The Nazis, he said, were not going to return with swastikas and brown shirts. Their ideological inheritors in America had found a mask for fascism in patriotism and the pages of the Bible.

Adams was not a man to use the word “fascist” lightly. He was in Germany in 1935 and 1936 and worked with the underground anti-Nazi church, known as the Confessing Church, with dissidents such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Adams was eventually detained and interrogated by the Gestapo, who suggested he might want to consider returning to the United States.

He saw in the Christian Right, long before we did, disturbing similarities with the German Christian Church and the Nazi Party, similarities, he said that would, in the event of prolonged social instability, catastrophe or national crisis, see American fascists, under the guise of Christianity, rise to dismantle the open society.

He despaired of liberals, who he said, as in Nazi Germany, mouthed empty platitudes about dialogue and inclusiveness that made them ineffectual and impotent.

Liberals, he said, did not understand the power and allure of evil or the cold reality of how the world worked.


Very interesting. I know that the S. Baptists have had a struggle but didn’t look into the details. Love the book, too…may get it. Thanks. :slight_smile:

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I haven’t read the book, and of course the IRD denies involvement in such tactics.

My main point was to suggest that the far Christian Right has a dominionist agenda and a long-term vision to achieve it.

Why wouldn’t they want to recruit a multi-billion dollar outfit like the SDA church to their power bloc? Of course they would.

Trump couldn’t have been elected without Mike Pence on the ticket.

If you read the book, I’d be interested in your take on it.


Oh…I will certainly get it and read it! You will receive a book report. :slight_smile:

Just briefly looking at the reviews I can see that some of the tactics have been used currently in the SDA church. Should be fascinating reading. Thanks again.

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True. God’s timeline return has nothing to do with Ted’s messing up, fermenting insanity thing at the General Conference. It has been said that its insanity continues to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome that this is the very definition of insanity. The same thing over and over again (the everlasting cycle of sin, repent, sin repent) and expecting a different outcome for the past - how many years?

Can we not see that this strategy doesn’t work, is insanity, somewhere along the line when a man called TW got a hold of the genuine divine truth and spun it more towards his own image? It’s easy to begin to think so.

It’s high time TW and US engage in our individual powers of free will of choice so together in unity that we finally begin to choose to do God’s will and enter into the Christ light.

Yep because unlike the Jews who are waiting for the Sabbath to be kept perfectly SDA’s are expecting that the character of Christ reproduced in His people is the criteria. But Jesus said it is that the Gospel be preached to all the world didn’t he?


It does come down to whether you believe the criteria comes from the Bible…or EGW. :slight_smile: I prefer the Bible.

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So how do you reconcile what EGW said, with what Jesus said?


Ah… That is indeed the question isn’t it? We know that Jesus Words are Truth… Hmmmm… It becomes easy to draw the proper conclusion, doesn’t it? If a person is capable of working past the cognitive dissonance, that is :open_mouth:


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