Could the Solution to the Church’s Stalemate Come Out of Africa?


(George Tichy) #41

And nobody investigates that? Where are the Church auditors???

:thinking: Why don’t you take this issue in your own hands and expose those people’s names right here? This would actually add some substance to your accusations. Otherwise we wouldn’t have any concrete info that would make us believe your story.


(Red Livingstone) #42

Tricky tricky tricky. I have lived in three different mission fields (two in Africa and one in the Philippines where the “investigation” was “swept under the rug”.

But not a new phenomenon, you remember “davenport”?


(George Tichy) #43

I hope Allen @ajshep will not consider your post also as part of

:thinking:
… LOL


#44

As a church employee I have seen numerous cases of corruption. When it is addressed then you are either shipped off to another area, threatened or told that you shouldn’t be digging in those areas. Things are covered up and because of those issues (threats and warnings) I am going under a generic AfricanAdventist. I know it is not just an African issue and happens everywhere in the world.


(jeremy) #45

well, the matter involving SAU’s SEDCOM, TOC and the albertan conference at least got an airing in a joburg court…and perhaps, this is where all money issues throughout our church ought to be resolved - think davenport, folkenberg and james moore, etc…i think the apostle john’s snide comment about judas (John 12:6) suggests that even inspired church people are likely to remain impressed unless suspected theft and irregularities are resolved fairly and openly, which is what the venue of a secular court provides…

i do have to say that in the case of irregularities in africa, especially in s. africa, the legacies of apartheid probably do have to be factored in…it’s unrealistic to expect people who’ve been openly subjugated for decades to pass up on the opportunity for self-aggrandizement, at least marginally…i happened to sit next to a dutchman on a flight from joberg to london a few yrs back who explained to me that he works in london, although he lives in s. africa, because he cannot find work in s. africa…it apparently is the case that reverse discrimination is very much on the ticket…to me, this says that the situation in s. africa, and probably all over africa, is going to take much more time to heal…

but while we probably cannot look at corruption in africa in the same light as corruption in places like NAD or europe, it would likely help to post various watchdog agencies from outside of africa in the treasury departments of some of the african conferences and unions…the fact that albertan church members can’t access the records of SEDCOM is outrageous…


#46

To be saved, one needs to receive God’s forgiving grace for his past sins and accept Christ’s righteousness which is conformity to His law by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is what SDA teaches and believes. As seen on the cross, Jesus took our place paying the penalty for our transgression of the law and at the same time offering us His grace and His perfect character instead of our sinfulness. This is not only some declaration while we continue in sin but is transformation of the entire character into the lovely image of Jesus. Anything less that this is a false gospel. God bless.


(George Tichy) #47

Is this the kind of answer that “excellent teachers” give to SS members when asked a serious question?.. Talk about competence to teach the lesson… :innocent:


#48

YES,

It is not RIGHT for the UPRIGHT to be UPTIGHT.


#49

What you post is a corrupt ambiguous gospel. It doesn’t make any sense. Do you think accepting Jesus righteousness=transformation of character?


(jeremy) #50

one also needs to accept christ’s ongoing imputed righteousness because our best efforts, aided by the holy spirit, will always fall short of the requirements of a holy law…that is, even when we aren’t consciously sinning, the defilement from the fallen nature each of us are trapped in until glorification taints everything we do, think or feel…


#51

Jeremy,

That is valid yet still is not the gospel or what saves


(George Tichy) #52

Yes, I remember that. But I only heard remotely about it since I was living in Brazil at that time. Coincidentally, a few days ago I read Walter Rea’s (unpublished) book (.pdf) “Pirates of Privilege.” WOW! What a story!!!

Then I understood why the Church imposed the clause that he would keep his pension only if he would not publish that book. Tells me a lot about the way things happen among those “black suited guys upstairs”… Horrifying.

This is why I don’t buy into the old, traditional argument used to “relieve us from our responsibility”, “You give but you are not to be concerned with what happens to the money. The Lord is in charge.” …Yeah, right!!! Good try… :wink:


(George Tichy) #53

Can you provide any substantiation that his is what the SDAC “teaches and believes,” that righteousness is conformity to the law?


#54

George could you PM me with into on this book plz


(Peter) #55

Challenging a church practice/policy is NOT sin, especially when the a group like TOSC concludes that the question of ordination is NOT Biblical. I believe it is cruel to even imply that questioning one’s church is sin! Challenging a GC policy cannot rightly be considered a sin.

Ellen and James White challenged their Methodist Church and were driven away! Was that sin? Of course not. Why would Ellen say “the greatest want of the world is the want of men who will stand for the right (question, challenge) though the heavens fall”? The heavens may fall for those questioning the authoritarianism of Ted and his team, but we are called to question rather than blindly comply.

What I wonder is why Ted Wilson seems to have no Christlike pastoral heart. Far too many are being alienated from the church now because of Ted’s authoritarian practice. Remember the parable of the good Shepherd? He is not emulating that. The good shepherd did not set up tribunals. The good shepherd did not even infer that, “this may be the beginning of the shaking time, and perhaps I’m called to lead the church through that. So if this sheep questioned (“strayed”) that’s to be expected.” Consider this old song:

1
There were ninety and nine that safely lay
In the shelter of the flock,
But one was out on the hills away,
Far off in the cold and dark;
Away on the mountains wild and bare,
Away from the tender Shepherd’s care.
2
“Lord, Thou hast here Thy ninety and nine;
Are they not enough for Thee?”
But the Shepherd made answer: “This of Mine
Has wandered away from Me;
And although the road be rough and steep,
I go to the desert to find My sheep.”
3
But none of the ransomed ever knew
How deep were the waters crossed;
Nor how dark was the night which the Lord passed through
Ere He found His sheep that was lost.
Out in the bleak desert He heard its cry—
All bleeding and helpless, and ready to die.
4
“Lord, whence are those blood-drops all the way
That mark out the mountain’s track?”
“They were shed for one who had gone astray
Ere the Shepherd could bring him back.”
“Lord, whence are Thy hands so rent and torn?”
“They’re pierced tonight by many a thorn.”
5
And all through the mountains, thunder-riven,
And up from the rocky steep,
There arose a cry to the gate of heaven,
“Rejoice! I have found My sheep!”
And the angels echoed around the throne,
“Rejoice, for the Lord brings back His own!”


#56

Jesus righteousness works transformation on those who receive it:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John 1:12

What is the gospel?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth… Romans 1:16

The gospel is God’s power that changes sinners like you and me into God’s image. Those who truly accept Jesus as their personal savior receive His power that works in them to do God’s will.

For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

So the true gospel of God’s grace frees us from our past sins and guilt and empowers us to live according to His will in the present. This is pure Bible teaching. Blessings.


(George Tichy) #57

Don’t have to be via PM, it’s public info. If you Google “Pirates of Privilege pdf,” the first line shows the book right there, downloadable in pdf for free:

http://www.truthorfables.com/PIRATES%20OF%20PRIVILEGE%20-%20Revised%207-2-09.pdf

(I am glad the Church didn’t allow him to publish it. This way we can get it for FREE… LOL)


(Joselito Coo) #58

Thank you so much for responding. Finally! Sincerely hoping this won’t be your last to commenters in your columns.

That being said, won’t you agree that in more ways than one our internal organizational church culture mirrors the surrounding culture? Like this:

I believe in helping Africa and Africans. However, your suggestion of playing one set of donors (NAD) against the other (GC), in my opinion, only compounds the problem of corruption and will not solve it. While the GC is not perfect; at least we can trust the GCAS of doing their job… What’s missing is some administrative clout in regard to compliance (sorry) or a more effective grievance process.

Instead of Africa, a rapprochement with our South American and Inter-American leaders for a compromise solution might be in order. I say this in light of the fact that while, on one hand, the NAD’s contribution to mission has diminished, our South and Inter-American divisions, on the other hand, have stepped up to the plate and increased their mission funding as well as the number of Inter-division Service Employees from those two divisions.


(George Tichy) #59

Just to clarify something,

Are you an adept or supporter of LGTarianism (aka perfectionism)?
____ YES … … ____ NO

(Noe explanation needed/expected either way)


(Red Livingstone) #60

Fuzzy Logic. A percentage of NAD tithe also goes to overseas mission. Do not forget that part of the equation.