Czech-Slovak Union Votes to Ordain Women to Pastoral Ministry, Rejects GC Document


(Steve Mga) #41

Tim –
Perhaps a new paradigm for promoting “this Gospel of the Kingdom to the whold
world”?


(Tim Teichman) #42

Not just the remnant saints? Not just those who believe all the right doctrines, eat all the right foods, and worship properly on the correct day of the Roman Pagan calendar? Whaaaaaaaaat?


#43

Indeed.

"Prohibiting women from the highest ranks of formal leadership fosters a fundamentally toxic masculinity." --Jonathan L. Walton, professor of Christian Morals and Ethics at Harvard University speaking on sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic and Baptist Churches. New York Times, Feb. 20, 2019)

%20Walton%202


(Frieda Roos) #44

ALL should be welcome in the body of Christ! We are ALL sinners in one way or another!


(Steve Mga) #45

Tim – Think what would happen if we had a lot of persons preaching like Paul,
and his messages as he wrote in his letters??
Better not! It is too frightening knowing there won’t be.


#46

For example, the way he ignored what Moses wrote about circumcision, and the way he ignored the food requirement of the Jerusalem Council by giving the Corinthians (1 Cor 10:25) to eat whatever was sold in the meat market. Imagine the fun that would be stirred up if ministers felt free to ignore the pronouncements of the GC!


#47

Sorry, the missing word is permission.


(George Tichy) #48

You can always edit your posts, as many times as needed. Just click on that little pencil at the bottom of your post, and voilá!


#49

I find this picture disgusting, George. You seem to think that Ted Wilson runs this church. He doesn’t. You might think differently of him if you spent six months with him observing what he does and talking with him.


(Steve Mga) #50

Kalfoof –
Are you on President Wilson’s Team in Silver Springs? Working closely with him
every day?
He has been the one who is saying – We will take no quarter with those who
honor the status of women, and allow them to be equal in the SDA church as
fellow persons who love God and wish to give the Gospel to the world.
HE is the one pushing “Dire Consequences” on the Unions.
HE was the one who was behind the way the 2015 Proposition to vote on was
worded so that it made no sense and so persons thought they were voting one
way, and actually were voting another way.
And even in 2019, church members are STILL confused by what it actually said.

So YES! Burning at the Stake like a Steak? Yes, he has been doing that to women.
And even when he was in Australia and could have been honoring a woman, our
President of the WORLD CHURCH REFUSED!!! to even touch a woman when she
was being offered up to God like the boy Samuel was offered up to God and to
minister in God’s Sanctuary for the rest of her life.
She could have gone up in flames, and it would NOT have bothered him there on
the platform in front of all those people.


#51

And you can PROVE that HE “alone” is doing what you say? Or are you making an assumption? I understand clearly what the motion was, as well as the motion of 1990 and 1995. Do you? I can post all three for you. My guess is that you would not change your mind if I did. It appears the Czech Union is in rejecting those three votes.


(Steve Mga) #52

Kalfoof –
Ha! Ha! I thought so! You are afraid to answer my original question.
You have NOT been around President Wilson every day and so DO NOT
observe him, and do NOT talk to him every day!!
It is only hearsay in your comment to George.

What the 2015 vote came down to was – LEAVE the Unions to decide IF they
desire to Ordain [not the other] to Pastoral Ministry, making them equal to their
Men counterparts as equals in position, reimbursement for time, equal to
advancement to ANY POSITION in the Union, just as their Male counterparts.
THIS is the same as it always has been in the Policy Book.
The UNIONS decide who will be Ordained Pastors – Men and Women.

If you believe the Vote was something else, then your reading of the 2015
Question did its work – caused confusion by the DELIBERATELY confusing
wording. I will have to say this for it — 1. It was well crafted. 2. A number of
persons spent a lot of time getting it worded just right to cause confusion.


#53

I did not ignore your question. I felt it was stupid. Sorry. You missed my point to George completely. My point…You, George ,and others pass judgment on TW and you don’t know the man personally. Much is based on hearsay. That was my point.

I am a retired SDA elementary teacher living in Michigan. I have never been in the same space with TW. We are not to judge people when we don’t know them or their motives. Matt. 7. And yet in this forum, that happens all the time.

As for the vote. I will not discuss that with you, for you would not accept one thing I said even if I quoted from the GC policy book, NAD policy book, or Union policy book. I even quoted the NAD policy to Mr. Dan Jackson and he just blew me off.


(Steve Mga) #54

Kalfoof –
President Wilson’s UNFORGIVEABLE behavior in Australia was filmed, and
was available on the Internet!!
It was out there for anyone interested to see.
The “Dire Consequences” has been out there to read. And was ONLY forged
and passed because of a few women who were elected as Ordained Pastors
and Conference President.
Tell me THAT is NOT FIGHTING against women. And FIGHTING against
what Union Church Members have the power to do.


#55

I know nothing about any video. When was this supposed to have happened?


(Steve Mga) #56

Sorry. I didn’t keep a record of it. So unable to tell you.
Perhaps others on here can provide that data if it is still available to watch.


(George Tichy) #57

@kalfoof

Of course that picture is disgusting. I don’t like it either. However, it’s a very educational picture because it reminds us what religious intolerance can do to people who disagree with one’s religious views.

I don’t need to talk with Ted Wilson. For what? To hear probably nice words? Not needed. For many years, at least since 2010, I have been observing his BEHAVIOR, ie, what he does and how he does it. This is what matters.

He may surely be a nice person, but the way he runs this Church is a disaster, taking it backwards instead of helping it moving forward. I hope it all ends up having (in his own words) “grave consequences” for him in terms of not being re-elected in case he dares to run again in 2020. He should actually “run away” from that.


(George Tichy) #58

You nailed it again! It was so clearly spelled out that I am wondering what the problem may be that some people do not understand the wording. English is not my primary language but even I do understand it with no problem!.. :roll_eyes:


(George Tichy) #59

I would say it kindly…, I would appreciate if you stopped making false accusations like this one. Nobody is passing judgment on Ted Wilson as a person. We make comments on his ACTIONS and BEHAVIOR. I hope that you, a teacher, can understand the difference. We don’t need to meet the person, because it’s not even important. Why should we?

But, his ACTION S and BEHAVIOR and MANEUVERS and SERMONS are public knowledge. What is the problem with disagreeing with what he does and the way he does it?

Question for you:
Do you support discrimination of women in our Church? YES ____ NO ____ (No explanation expected)

====
Note: The use of CAP LETTERS is only for emphasis, it should not be understood as “yelling.”


(Steve Mga) #60

Kalfoof–
YES! BEHAVIOR of President Wilson is what we have a problem with.
I am sure you have had many a kid in school who was basically a
“good kid” but their behavior in the class room was a problem.
Unfortunately, with “good adults” who have bad behaviors it is not
possible to treat those behaviors so the “good adult” is left. Especially
if they are in positions of Power and Authority.