Daniel’s Micro-code

Henry, is your motivation for repeatedly popping up on this thread to get us to check out your $25 book?

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Kevin, maybe I need to read your somewhat obtuse article a couple more times, but if I understand it right, you are essentially arguing there is a “micro-view” in which the 2300 evening-mornings is 1150 literal days between the time Christ cleansed the temple and when he died, and that there is a “macro/maxi-view” in which the 2300 evening-mornings are 2300 years ending in 1844 as in traditional SDA understanding, and that both views are correct. Am I understanding you? If so, how can you interpret 2300 as 1150 days in one instance and 2300 years in another? It seems an inconsistent application of your interpretation of the Hebrew. Also, I’m confused by your argument from Revelation that there simultaneously is and isn’t a temple in heaven. Can you please clarify?

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Robert,
Laodiceans offend Jesus because they know everything and are in need of NOTHING. It is not possible to give them free information or to sell them anything that contradicts their opinions because they are not buying it. Laodiceans are like the folks in Noah’s Day, who had the potential to enter the ark, but those folks were not buying Noah’s message any more than Laodiceans are buying the gold tried in the fire, the eyesalve, or garment that Christ is selling without price.

These threads are limited in scope and duration.(They get locked down before I realize that some one needed a reply.) But the book of Daniel itself takes us all the way to Christ’s Advent. Unfortunately, too many Laodiceans focus on the historical Daniel that they neglect the Daniel that is standing in his lot today where the rubber is meeting the road. So enjoy my comments or ignore them. I share freely and I answer questions and PM’s.

But you need to be aware that Daniel identifies 2 Michaels. The First Michael (Christ) interacted with the Prince of Persia in Daniel’s Day and he is active in the endtime seeking to arouse Laodicea to their dangers and the necessity to prepare themselves and other for His Advent. The second Michael is the counterfeit Prince of the Covenant that arises in the endtime. The prince of the covenant Michael that stands in America to begin the Time of Trouble implements the 666 Mark of the Beast. The latter rain follows. And then Michael (Jesus) wraps it up when He says “It is done” and the 7 last plagues fall upon the unsuspecting world. After Trump is broken Michael stands. God’s timeline is intact and we can rundown the clock like the folks in Noah’s Day or we can be among the Laodiceans that hear Jesus and follow His instructions.

Henry,

I am fascinated by the way that Adventists (and some other Christians) engage in speculative prophetic interpretations (while denying they are speculative); I suppose it is deeply engrained in the DNA of a church arising from the ashes of William Miller’s failed schemes. So I’m curious:

What is going to be your explanation if events don’t happen as you have foretold? (Or, as you’d argue, Daniel foretold). Will you (a) lose your faith; (b) decide that prophecy is contingent and that the fulfillment is delayed; (c ) decide that your interpretation and hermeneutic was wrong; (d) conclude that maybe those who disagreed with you weren’t Laodiceans; (e) follow the example of pioneer SDAs and double down, finding a new “enhanced” interpretation and revise your book?

There are all kinds of speculative prophetic schemes/interpretations on the internet. The burden of proof is on you, not on those you label “Laodicean” for being unwilling to believe you or part with $25 without evidence that your interpretation is reliable.

Specifically, since you offer to freely answer questions, perhaps you can publicly “put a stake in the ground” and we can judge your accuracy soon:

Your book blurb lists several predictions; can you give us reference texts that are the basis for the following, and provide additional details?
1. President Trump will not finish his first term.
Can you tell us when that will occur and under what circumstances (heart attack, assassination, resignation, etc.)?
2. Michael Pence will be President before 2020 ends.
Again, can you tell us under what circumstances/date, if different than #1?
3. America is going to have a brutal war with Iran.
Can you tell us when this will occur, who else will be involved in the conflict, and who will win?

In the front of your book’s online preview you ask, "Will something of global significance happen? Valentine’s Day February 14, 2020
2 April 2020
17 May 2020
Please tell us what happened February 14, 2020, and what will happen on April 2 and May 17. Provide supporting texts as well. And for Feb. 14, please provide an exact quote of what you predicted before that date, and the date on which you you publicly predicted it.

Finally, I have encountered other speculative schemes online where proponents have associated Trump with Cyrus, and like you, have attempted to offer a “current” interpretation of Bible prophecies. Who have been your most influential sources, and in what ways do you consider your contribution unique?

Thank-you.

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Robert,
It would surprise me if you were not surprised.

[quote=“JohnstonRT, post:24, topic:19811”]
I am fascinated by the way that Adventists (and some other Christians) engage in speculative prophetic interpretations (while denying they are speculative) [/quote]

Having studied Daniel extensively with the Bible, a concordance, and the Spirit of Prophecy in hand; I can speak of things that you never will comprehend until they come to pass. And then it may be too late to do you any good.

This question assumes that you do not believe my conclusions as set forth. I am a Bible student! I am not God, thus I am not infallible. So when it happens as I have warned you from my study of Scripture, will you loose your faith? Decide that your church has deceived you with it private interpretation and twisted the Spirit of Prophecy through a traditional lens? Wonder what you can believe if anything going forward?

The light that Daniel received direct from God was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel…are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon have come to pass (4BC 1166.5).

And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. And after the league [made] with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people (Daniel 11:21-23,; cf 8:22).

What is the “image to the beast”? and how is it to be formed? The image is made by the two-horned beast, and is an image to the first beast. It is also called an image of the beast. Then to learn what the image is like, and how it is to be formed, we must study the characteristics of the beast itself, —the papacy (GC88 443.2).

I saw all that “would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,” could not buy or sell. [Revelation 13:15-17.] I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up ; [Revelation 13:18.] and that it was the Beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope’s, and not God’s Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God’s Sabbath, and keep the Pope’s, and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his image (WLF 19.1).

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:9-10).

The formation of the image beast began when America used Pakistan to arm Afghanistan to resist the Russian invasion in 1990. It is a fascinating study, but it takes several pages to spell out who is who and what they did.

He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do [that] which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers’ fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: [yea], and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time. And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him (Daniel 11:24, 25).

We have no time to lose. Troublous times are before us. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. Soon the scenes of trouble spoken of in the prophecies will take place. The prophecy in the eleventh of Daniel has nearly reached its complete fulfillment. Much of the history that has taken place in fulfillment of this prophecy will be repeated. In the thirtieth verse a power is spoken of that “shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so, shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant” [Verses 31-36, quoted] (13MR 394.1).

At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore, he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so, shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [continual, margin], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits]. And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, [many] days. Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. And [some] of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make [them] white, [even] to the time of the end: because [it is] yet for a time appointed. And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done (Daniel 11:29-36).

Chittim is “from an unused name denoting Cyprus: a general term for all islanders of the Mediterranean Sea; the descendants of Javan” (cf Strong). Javan “is universally used by the nations of the East as the generic name of the Greek race” (cf Easton’s Bible Dictionary). Chittim may once have denoted the island of Cyprus, which is now divided between Greece and turkey. The Greek empire which included Cyprus extended to Iran. The endtime Chittim is most likely an island near Iran. The Iranians are protective of their islands.

More recently, As Revelation 13 nears its complete and final fulfillment, President Trump has threatened to rain “FIRE AND FURY” upon North Korea. Vice President Pence said “The time has come to establish the United States Space Force” (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business /economy/pence-details-plan-for-creation-of-space-force-in-what-would-be-the-sixth-branch-of-the-military/2018 /08/09/0b40b8d0-9bdc-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story .html?utm_term=.8cdf66e7ec05) “The U.S. Space Command officially starts Aug. 29, [2019] serving as the launching pad for the Space Force, they said. Air Force Gen. John Raymond has been tapped and confirmed by the Senate as its first leader” (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/ us/space-command-will-launch-aug-29-vice-president-mike-pence-says/ar-AAG 4FaV?ocid= spartanntp).

“After the league [made] with him [President Pence] he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people” (Daniel 11:23, enhanced). His political allies? Or is it the Space Force that he organized?

The hour allotted for the Judgment of the DEAD was from 22 October 1844 thru 22 February 1928. The Tarrying time began after that and during the Tarrying time, the papacy was restored to its kingdom during 1929 via the Lateran Treaty. Thus, on the Day of atonement 14 October 1929 the papacy was alive and the Judgment of the LIVING commenced. It continued for a Judgment hour until 14 February 2013. At which time the 7 headed papal beast of Rev 13 ended its 7 solo pope reign of the papacy when Benedict XVI resigned and the two pope papacy began. As ancient Babylon had two kings when Cyrus (a type of Christ) dried up the Euphrates (the Euphrates is drying up in preparation for Christ’s Advent…literally people have fled the river basin and the flow into papal Babylon is drying up because of the RCC priests’ fornication scandal).

Thus, as it was in the days of Noah (he went into the ark for 7 days) A day can be a year in Bible prophecy. 14 February 2020 was the end of the 7 years that followed the Judgment of the living that ended in 2013. You will notice that my 14 Feb 2020 question was in print before that date happened. On 14 Feb 2020 a Bomb cyclone formed and attacked Iceland and Great Britain and beyond. https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/02/14/storm-dennis-historic-bomb-cyclone/

I did not predict an exact event for 14 February 2020. I said to look for something of global significance. And I looked for such and event and found the Bomb Cyclone. Bomb cyclones are rare and this was a significant happening on that very day.

2 April 2020. has not happened yet. I suspect it will have something to do with Trump being broken or President Pence? I had initially thought that it would be the National Sunday law, but it looks like President Pence should be in office for a while before that happens. 2 April 2020 is the date that aligns with the end of the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 but the prophecy does not specify the event. (I am watching President Trump to see if anything happens to him around that time that could fulfill Daniel’s statement that he will be broken). The same is true with 17 May 2020 that aligns with the 1335 days. If President Pence is in office on 2 April, 17 May 2020 might align with the 666 Mark of the Beast. Keep watching and praying for discernment!

Robert, it looks like you have learned to be skeptical by your internet encounters. Beware that you do not loose the ability to discern between truth and speculation because of the false teachings of others. Jesus wants us to prove all things and hold fast to that which is truth.

In Jeremiah’s day folks had trouble distinguishing between Jeremiah and Hananiah. We can look back on the historical record and see who was on God’s side and who was deceived. In our day, we are as clueless as the folks in Jeremiah’s Day when called upon to discern truth and error: Unless we have a sound Bible footing and depend on the Holy Spirit to give us discernment!

Many show plainly that it is not evidence they want, but an excuse for disregarding a plain “Thus saith the Lord.” Instead of fearing and trembling before God, rejoicing that they have the privilege of listening to warnings and reproof, some inwardly wish that light had never come to them, to bring them to the test of decision (RH, November 13, 1900 par. 8).

Henry,
Thanks for filling in some of the details, though you artfully dodged several of my questions. Given how you responded to my first set of questions, I will go out on a limb and predict that your response when Trump continues his presidency and Mike Pence does not become president by the end of 2020 will be “e”–you will adjust your interpretation to a new one and assure us that THAT is how things will unfold.

I must give you credit for creativity. I never would have seen Donald Trump or Mike Pence in the texts that you cited as authorities. In fact, I still don’t, even after you have pointed the texts out to me. Now I’m wondering, if the Donald is the Last Trump, who was the First Trump? And why did Daniel use Donald Trump’s last name but Michael Pence’s first name? Such inconsistencies make it difficult for all but the most astute to see the patterns you do.

You wrote:

I find it interesting that you seem opposed to the SDA Church’s traditional interpretation yet you extensively quote Ellen White. You apparently think Adventists have twisted her writings. Yet your speculative interpretations seem wildly out of line not just with “traditional interpretation” by the church but with the interpretations provided in Ellen White’s writings as well. Here is just one example; you say that:

I note your use of the singular, “the Tarrying time.” That is in agreement with Ellen White’s use of the phrase as well. And yet, she is explicit that “the tarrying time” was from 1843 to October 1844. This is clear in many of her writings, but perhaps laid out most explicitly in 4SP 241, where the chapter is entitled, “The Tarrying Time.” Thus, it puzzles me that you would accuse contemporary Adventists of twisting Ellen White when by all appearances you are the one ignoring or possibly twisting what she wrote. This is but one example, but your interpretation of other texts also differs significantly from what Ellen White and other pioneer Adventists understood. It is not the church today that is twisting things; this is how they wrote and taught 150+ years ago! Of course, if you think Ellen White and the church were wrong in their interpretation, you have every right to say so and make your case. But to cite her authority and then teach contrary to what she believed undermines your credibility, to say the least.

Unfortunately, you seem to have made it difficult for us to assess your credibility when it comes to your interpretive track record going forward. You have left the events of 4/2/2020 and 5/17/2020 rather open-ended: mere guesses, really. If a bomb cyclone could fulfill your 2/14/2020 prediction, pretty much any event could be claimed as fulfillments on 4/2 and 5/17. Likewise, your claim of war with Iran is open-ended without a date, and you may claim a minor action such as a Navy Seal mission to some offshore facility to free hostages would qualify as fulfillment. On the other hand, though you refused to elaborate further on the dates and specific events as I asked (apparently you don’t know), you were quite explicit in claiming that Trump would not finish his term and that Pence would be president by the end of 2020. I guess we’ll have to wait and see what 2020 brings before we can judge your accuracy.

I will put a note in my file to check back in at the end of 2020 and I hope to then see a retraction by you and perhaps an explanation of how your method of interpretation led you astray. Whether you would actually do that is doubtful, so I won’t hold my breath; I expect you’ll choose Option “e” instead.

Meanwhile, if you are serious about promoting your ideas, you should be offering your book on Amazon for a low introductory price.

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Robert,

Thank you for taking time to write, but you are quite mistaken about my view.

I have been a SDA for almost 60 years. The SDA view of Bible prophecy that is currently taught is not the endtime meaning of prophecy. And the way that EGW is twisted to mean the opposite of what she actually said is heartbreaking.

My study of Bible prophecy focuses on the Bible and supplements the study with the Spirit of Prophecy. Thus, when prophecies are repeated to have their final complete endtime meaning, it is
important to understand that earlier fulfillments were partial, not the end of the matter.

The difficulty is because you have not read much of my studies. I have a mixed bag of success and wrong calls. For example: the understanding that the 2 horned earth beast in Rev 13 has 2 horns led me to follow the prophecy incorrectly. Yes from Sept 2011 thru Sept 2012, I predicted that Benedict XVI would not be pope after the spring of 2013. (My 8 time and date stamped tweets are still in twitter’s archives). He left office in February 2013. That before the fact understanding was correct. I clearly saw that Rev 13 shifted from the papal beast to the American beast that had 2 horns. Daniel 8 says they are kings (Presidents), thus, Bush II and Obama were the last American Presidents identified in that Bible prophecy. My brethren tried to confuse me to believe that the horns were Protestantism and Republicanism. NO! those are the characteristics of the Presidents, not the symbolic meaning of the horns.

So where did President Trump come from? Back to Bible study. Luke 10:1 states that Jesus sent them out “ana duo” that is “by two and two.” Then I learned that the same was true about the “duo horns” in Revelation 13. They are “two and two horns.” EG White had never said anything about that because the meaning of the prophecies were to unfold as the people had need of them. The (DUO) horns were Bush II and Obama and then came Trump, who will be followed by Pence.

Daniel makes it clear that Trump is broken after a few years. He is in his third year that would qualify for a “few” And my study of the formation of the beast has led me to understand that the formation of the Image Beast takes place this year. Add to that the fact that Michael stands Daniel 12:1.

In an earlier post on this forum, I showed from an EGW statement that when Michael stands the Time of trouble begins. Another EGW statement was posted here to show that when Michael stands the 7 last plagues begin. And a 3rd EGW statement posted showed that the out pouring of the Latter Rain comes after the Time of Trouble begins, but before the 7 Last Plagues. And furthermore: Jesus only stands once more NOT TWICE. With that in mind Daniel 10:13 states that Michael who worked with the Prince of Persia in Daniel’s Day was Jesus and He was ONE of the “chief princes.” (There is more than one Michael.)

From Daniel 9, I knew that Jesus was the Prince of the Covenant when He was baptized and that when the decree to rebuild Jerusalem was repeated 31 May 1998 in the endtime, and that George Bush II was anointed as the Protestant Prince of America’s Constitution on 20 January 2001 in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Thus, the counterfeit prince of the covenant title went from Bush II, to Obama, to Trump and it will go to Pence when he is inaugurated. Thus, Prince Michael Pence will implement the 666 Mark of the Beast and the Time of Trouble when he stands for his people.

You cannot possibly understand any of this coming from an SDA background that leans toward the preterist view while claiming to be historicist. God called me to study Daniel in 1997 and it has been challenging to say the least. The Laodicean mindset is most trying. So many refuse to look at anything that is not prepackaged and 100% accurate. They seem to think that God led us with infallible prophetic understanding in the past and unless everything is understood perfectly at every step in the process, it cannot be of God. The Jews in Jesus’ Day rejected His message because it did not jive with their notions. And history is repeating itself on the eve of Christ’s Advent.

Some of us have had time to get the truth and to advance step by step, and every step we have taken has given us strength to take the next. But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again. Those who would not receive the mark of the beast and his image when the decree goes forth, must have decision now to say, Nay, we will not regard the institution of the beast.{EW 67.2}

Henry,
Thank-you for writing and filling us in on some of the details. I understand why you have met resistance. Yours seems like a haphazard approach to prophetic interpretation: here a little, there a little. Your interpretation is at variance with the early SDAs/EGW in many ways (including the 2-horned beast). If I understand you right, you basically are arguing that all of their interpretations may have been correct, but that there is yet another fulfillment of these prophecies in the last days (now) and that your interpretations are about these. I guess you are taking the apotelesmatic principle to the next level! In any case, I hope you find a way to be less judgmental towards the “Laodicean mindset” that doesn’t see things as you do. You haven’t offered a convincing case. At all.

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Robert,

It is difficult to follow Bible prophecy when knowledge increases. But it is not Impossible.

For example, William Miller taught that Daniel 12:1 was fulfilled in 1844 when Jesus stood for His people to confess them before the Father and His angels; though Miller had linked 1844 with Christ’s coming. EGW taught the same thing, but that was not the final meaning of Daniel 12:1, which is in the future, because Jesus did not come.

Thus, I teach that the 3 kings in Persia that begin Daniel 11 are the 3 that issued the decrees that began the 2300-year prophecy and it ended at 12:1 (in 1844 when Christ stood to begin the IJ). Thus, when Revelation 10 declares “thou must prophesy again” the 2300 year prophecy that ended in 1844 is repeated without linking it to time because “time shall be no longer.”

Thus, Daniel 11 that ended at 12:1 in 1844 repeats at vs 6 “in the end of years” (after 1844) and it flows chronologically to Daniel 12:1 when Christ stands the final time. Thus, Daniel 11 verse by verse matches with history through Daniel 11:22 and beyond. What was ordained to be in the past has been fulfilled. Much of the history that was ordained to be repeated after 1844 has been fulfilled. And the little part of the prophecy that is yet to be at the end of Daniel 11 is upon us.

That being said, Daniel 11 does not go from vs 1 to vs 22 with a mysterious gap following until Daniel 12:1 that is to be fulfilled in our day. Miller followed the King of the North from the Ottoman Empire to Great Britain, and the king of the South to Spain and from there to France. England and France joined together at the Crimean war. After 1844, the papacy that had been toppled in 1798 is the daughter of the king of the South (France) and thus, we have a solid prophetic thread in Daniel 11 that repeats to our day, which is contrary to what is being taught by many SDA’s who have lost the prophetic trail after 1844.

God’s Spirit will lead His people into all truth. I share what I have learned as knowledge has increased. It is not at variance with the word of God, but it is contrary to the erroneous traditions that have crept into Adventism since 1844. The Laodicean mindset will not accept “new light” because Laodiceans will not look any further than the traditions that they embrace. Those who look at the particulars, will receive the truth that will set them free. It is like those who looked at the serpent that Moses put on the pole in the wilderness: look and live while those who refuse to look suffered the consequences.

In spite of the traditions that are taught as gospel, I can assure you that President Trump will be broken and President Michael Pence will stand for his people. He will implement the 666 Mark of the Beast. President Michael Pence will be America’s last president and he will stand against Christ and the saints will be delivered by Christ at the appointed time
Christian regards,
His child henry.

Very well. I have a calendar reminder set on 1/1/2021 to touch base. I’ll be curious to know how your interpretation evolves.

Hi Kevin

“It’s Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection that will bring cleansing, restoration and vindication to the sanctuary!”

If you consider Romans 5:19 in conjunction with Philippians 2:8 and Isaiah 53:12 carefully you will find that it is actually Christ’s life of obedience unto death as the second Adam that brings cleansing, restoration and vindication.

Regards

Phil

1/1/2021 is a long way past 4/2/2020.
Your calendar reminder might not do you any good then.
“while it is today…”

When pressed, you couldn’t be certain about what happened on 2/14, and got rather wobbly about what would happen on 4/2 and 5/17, which means you can claim any event on 4/2 as “the” event. So, I will just wait until the end of the year when your more emphatic claim about Pence being president by then can be assessed. Of course, there are many ways that prediction could come true, though still relatively low probability; the totality of the forecast with events on 2/14, 4/2 and 5/17 as well as by the end of 2020 will be easier to assess as the new year begins.

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