Defending Last Generation Theology

(Steve Mga) #201

Harry –
Exodus tells us Moses built the Sanctuary according to the “pattern”
shown in the Mount.
When one makes a “pattern” this is NOT necessarily of something that
is already someplace else. It can be an original, a new thing. Perhaps
the “tent meeting place”, the tabernacle in the desert, was not a replica
of anything else. [Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4]
QUESTION – Hebrews 9:11 “greater, more perfect tabernacle, not made
with hands – or created with hands”
IS that “tabernacle” Christ in the Body of Jesus?
John 1:14 says God [in the body of Jesus] dwelt [tabernacled] among us.
Do these two Statements relate to each other.
Note in Revelation 21:22 says there is no temple in heaven. God and Jesus
are the temple.
So where does all THIS leave us???

(reliquum) #202

Writ also tells us there are two-only two things “on earth” in the image of two things “in heaven,” evoking the Lords prayer. That these two “in heaven as on earth” are the human as created (very good, “male and female” in the image of God), and the sanctuary/temple cannot be coincidence or spurious.
The temple is not just spiritual “feng shui” any more than man (humankind) is merely some sort of puppet or paper doll to be folded per God’s whim.

(Harry Elliott) #203

[quote=“niteguy2, post:201, topic:18120”]
So where does all THIS leave us???

Where indeed?

When Bob Brinsmead finally came to his senses, he said of our pioneers, “Those people were crazy.”
And that’s where we are: Still crazy after all these years.:smile:

(Harry Elliott) #204

I detest Trump’s monumental mendacity and cruelty, but that doesn’t mean I hate him. EGW had those flaws too, but not consistently. Actually, Ford tried to find as much merit as he her behavior. That’s the kind of guy he was.

(Steve Mga) #205

Harry –
We were studying the 8th and 9th chapter of Hebrews in our alternate
Sabbath School class, and this thought just POPed out at me. At 75,
was the 1st time I saw that and it became a thought. Although I have
been trying to reconcile the Revelation one of “the temple” in the New
Jerusalem being the “body of the Father and Christ” for some time.
So wherever they “are” is the “Temple”. Not a building.

(George Tichy) #206

Again, the book of Hebrews teaching clear lessons that the Adventists refuse to learn.
Spiritual arrogance, cultic mentality, or mere denial?


Isn’t it interesting that we have been taught that the earthly sanctuary was a type of the heavenly sanctuary?

You mentioned Revelation 21:22. Could it be more clear?

“I could see no temple in the city, for the Lord, the Almighty God, and the Lamb are themselves its Temple. The city has no need for the light of sun or moon, for the splendor of God fills it with light, and its radiance is the Lamb.”

Wherever they are is a sanctuary. Holy.

(jeremy) #208

to compare egw to trump is ridiculous…

ford couldn’t find merit in egw because it would have meant renouncing his whole theological approach - his whole life’s work - which he was not prepared to do…he rejected egw rather than his own choices, and that’s what a rejection of egw almost always boils down to…

(Harry Elliott) #209

[quote=“niteguy2, post:205, topic:18120”]
wherever they “are” is the “Temple”. Not a building.

Our doctrines aren’t the product of exegesis as much as brainstorms. Too many of them have survived via enforcement rather than study and collegial discussions. We are taught that there must be a literal temple in heaven because John wrote that he saw it. Well, he reported seeing “a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars”, but we don’t insist that that’s literal. And we have the additional problem that when the Bible was written, “sky” and “heaven” were the same thing. were the same thing.

I take made without hands to mean not a material building. Our church will never reconsider the idea that rituals on earth teach that there will be a rituals in heaven–with Jesus wearing the vestments of the wrong priesthood. :hushed:

(Harry Elliott) #210

Well, no. Des was a meticulous scholar. My daughter took a course from him at PUC. She couldn’t understand why people who didn’t know him were so unfair in the way they talked about him.

I had a long conversation with him once, myself–when I disagreed with him. Afterward, I told my wife that I was determined never to talk about him in a way I’d regret if it turned out that he was right, after all. Then I studied Daniel and Hebrews.

Re: EGW. I’ve never found a single piece of evidence that she ever said, or wrote, or did anything that she couldn’t do without being inspired. Have you?

(jeremy) #211

yes, and he used a number of assumptions, as all scholars do…in the same way evolutionary scientists use certain assumptions to meticulously deny a six-day fiat creation, ford used certain assumption to meticulously deny our IJ doctrine…this is just the reality, which has nothing to do with his scholarly merit…

egw was continuously taught by god, as few have been in the history of the world…but of course she had numerous non-inspired moments, which can be seen in her personal diaries and correspondence…

harry, i don’t get the feeling that you’ve read widely of either egw’s formal or informal writings…

(Patrick Travis) #212

Your exactly correct on that Jeremy. He is rich for a reason and being dumb or just privileged arent the reason. I fail to see how that is important in the theological conversation. Im going to be naughty and ask where are all those Mueller investigation Russians. Yet, Trump just has to enter the conversation. As Chesea Handler admitted there is a Trump derangement syndrome among liberals that insisted the false narrative was true. How is it working out for you including Kavanaugh Jeremy? A sad time in US history when there was indeed an attempted coup of a US president by anti Trumpers of every shade among the “deep state” special interest group.
Let it go!!!

(jeremy) #213

if trump were a real gentleman, with half a smidgeon of decency and consideration for others, we would not be seeing what you’re calling TDS…although they still would have been disappointed to win the popular vote by more than the population of most cities, and yet lose the election, most liberals, progressives and moderates would settle smoothly into the next four yrs, and let bygones be bygones…

but the reason that isn’t going to happen is because trump is stuck on himself, and thinks he’s better than anyone…he thinks he’s above the law…and he thinks he’s the only person with a brain…add to that the non-stop lying - 9,451 lies as of april 1, 2019 - his clear racism, plus the fact that he’s FAT, greasy and outa shape, there isn’t anyone going to take anything from him lying down…

there’s just no substitute for character in a leader, but that’s just where trump is in a very deep hole - a virtual bottomless pit…while i don’t approve of pete buttegieg’s gay lifestyle, he does have character…he’s a harvard grad, a rhodes scholar, and he’s kept himself in shape…i’d pick mayor pete for president over trump any day…

(George Tichy) #214

For me Hebrews was the master key. I studied it in much detail when I was studying Des’ Glacier View document. And that was it!

(Harry Elliott) #215

Boy, did you get on the wrong bus. :grin: I wish I had a nickel for every page I’ve read of “her” writings. People don’t become suspicious of Sister White when they don’ t read her extensively enough or carefully enough, but when they do.

Many decades ago, I even went so far as to type out the all of the pastoral advice I could find in D of A in order to avoid disobeying inspired counsel. On an old mechanical portable, yet. I don’t endorse it.

On second thought, I do endorse it. Just be ready to encounter surprises.

(jeremy) #216

it isn’t a question of doing a lot of reading or research on egw…it’s a question of reading her directly…i’m saying i don’t get the feeling you’ve read her directly extensively…

i have to tell you that this is always what i find with people who question her inspiration…i see this pattern over and over…

(George Tichy) #217

Oh, come on Jeremy, now you will “shut the door” on people who disagree with you? :wink:

(David) #218

It doesn’t mean the sun and moon won’t shine in it. It simply means we will have a calendar to look at (I can guarantee you it isn’t the Gregorian!) and that calendar is inspired by God and the Lamb.

(Steve Mga) #219

I wonder what the city nite life will be like? Entertainment all nite?

(jeremy) #220

it’s not a question of shutting the door on anyone…but in order to understand where we’re all coming from when it comes to egw, i think it’s worth pointing out that egw’s strongest critics are usually those who have read her directly the least…

and this only makes sense, when you think about it…why would someone invest time in reading what they don’t believe before they read it…