Denominational Leaders Clarify 'Holy Sexuality' Conference Cancellation

Just one little example that many may interpret as benign. Wayne Blakely often says, The opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality, it is holiness. If the opposite of homosexuality is holiness, then Gays and Lesbians are not holy.

They also freely tell their audiences theories about sexual orientation that are false and cast parents of LGBT young people and the young people as broken and in some way responsible for “broken” sexual orientations. Brokenness is what they preach.

Within the church, the members of this ministry are the majority view, a range of other views are not accepted in SDA churches, but this ministry is.

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This “Coming out Ministry” is the only view allowed in SDA churches. They are the majority view in this context.

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I have just found their testimonies on the internet and will watch them all over again.

Thanks Carolyn.

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What exactly is, “Homosexual Culture”?

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Hey Andrew,

Seeing as your probably new to hearing the names Wayne Blakely, Mike Carducci and Ron Woolsey, I’ll post one of the 3 testimonies here for you to check out. This one (28 mins) is of Mike Carducci. I just finished watching it myself. And for some to refer to him as a “snake oil salesman” baffles me. Here is a guy who for 20 years was searching for acceptance, even came to the point of allowing men to rape him just so as to find love. And he didn’t even realize he’d been raped until many years later.

Watch it. It is a heart wrenching story.

Robin,

I welcome this statement of clarification from the BUC which to me makes eminent sense. It seems that they have understood what freedom of conscience is all about.

Your lobbying for the church to follow your wishes just because a professional body backs your perspective is misguided. How many medicos have poisoned their patients because big pharma backs the way they operate.

What next! Will Adventists start marching in Gay Pride marches! But perhaps they already have! Who knows?

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Yes … on down the slippery slopes.

Coming Out Ministries is also slated to present to both the Youth and Young Adults at the Central California Conference this summer in July.

Ken

How does that make you feel?

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You are making a bold statement. So,

  1. Please indicate your expertise on the issue.
  2. Do you know any people that have been successfully changed as result of conversion therapy?
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That is the best way to define those people who are misguiding and deceiving so many. Literally Charlatans!

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Sadly, I agree that litigation is often necessary for policy change in institutions. I’ve said often that there’s room for reasonable Adventists from different theological perspectives to dialogue, but the idea of orientation change must be off the table. It’s absolutely irresponsible to promote it given what we now know. It would be like the FDA approving a drug that killed or seriously harmed 98 out of 100 patients. Long-term studies show that ten or more years after claiming orientation change, the vast, vast majority of men (this was a study on men) who claimed orientation change from homosexual to heterosexual no longer claimed that. And the few who did were almost all employed by “change” organizations or closely associated with ones so had a vested interest.

Not all of the men in this group claim orientation change (one does), but their language, the outdated science they present as causal evidence, and the entire framework is drenched in the ex-gay worldview, and the language for this particular conference especially so. I don’t want to silence anyone’s voice, but when one narrative is used as a weapon to try to force compliance and define a norm, it does much, much damage. We have to actually listen–not just promote the carefully selected testimonies that fit our current status quo. And that’s going to mean voices like this should be more in the ratio of one in one hundred stories from LGBT Adventists.

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Daneen,

In the video above on this thread, I did not hear “one narrative [that] is used to try and force compliance and define a norm.”

Instead I heard a man who was involved in what he terms “an invitational ministry” where he invites those with all manner of sexual sins, including but not limited to same sex sexual activity, to surrender and embrace the Father’s love, so that one may escape from old, unwanted and self defeating patterns of behaviour, and be transformed by the renewing of the mind.

Why should Psychological Associations, be they the Niger Psychological Association or the Kirabati Psychological Association or even the hallowed American Psychological Association wish to have a veto over such a spiritual process.

If our ethics are determined by spiritual goals why should we allow psychology to interfere. Des Ford was fond of saying that sin remains but that it should not reign. I say let psychology remain but it should not reign.

In the video on the thread above, Mike at no point recommends some style of organized change ministry. His testimony is what God did for him. It didn’t happen overnight either.

How is it that we want to shut such testimony down? Today, more than ever we need champions. And I am not talking of Mrs C! I speak of champions of freedom of conscience.

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PETER.
One of my homes is in downtown Portland, Oregon. Some years ago, while going for a Sunday morning walk near my home, I came across crowded sidewalks. I had inadvertently stumbled across a GAY PRIDE PARADE!

What totally astonished me was the presence of about thirty marching church groups, holding up banners of their churches. These were clearly straight heterosexual church members, proudly proclaiming that they were “affirming” congregations, a code word which meant that gays and lesbians, would be welcomed in their congregations. All the major Protestant churches were represented as well as Mormon and Catholic congregations.

Sadly, although greater Portland has one of the densest Adventist populations in North America, with nearly forty churches in metropolitan Portland, including very large congregations, there was not one Adventist church group present to invite this marginalized group to attend. Even Christ, who socialized with the outcast publicans and prostitutes, might have been found marching in this parade, as an outreach to these “sinners”.
Plus it was SUNDAY, when these Sunday worshipping church groups would have had to miss their church service to participate!
No wonder our gay and lesbian members vote with their feet, leaving Adventist churches where they are not welcome. They have MANY loving welcoming
options in other church groups and congregations.
This was the first and last gay pride parade I ever attended but It was an EYE OPENER!

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What message were they sending to their community as these churches engaged in this march.

It may have been any or all of the following:

  1. I favour one night stands between same sex attracted people.
  2. I just want the same sex attracted people to be monogamous in their relationships.
  3. I want my church to have warm fuzzies about my church’s attitude to same sex attracted people.
  4. Society is on the slippery slope in its attitudes about sexuality and we could help you toward escaping this slough of despond.

What a bunch of mixed messages!!

Redeemed Christians are never proud of their brokenness as people who are on a GAY PRIDE Parade are? Instead, they are humbled by it!!

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Like you are grasping at straws to exonerate homophobia.

Trust God.

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I am not homophobic, I am monozygotic!

Tell me Ken, which message are people in GAY PRIDE PARADES sending. I am genuinely confused.

I am sorry to hear this.

Carducci was emancipated from his lifestyle by idealising his homosexuality as the devil. Blakely is offended by SGA’s refusal to admit an ex-gay into a documentary about gay’s. Neither of which have claimed they are not homosexual, but are merely unresponsive to their nature after a lifetime of promiscuous celebration therein. Yeah, they are poster-children of the “gay lifestyle” past their prime. Which really indicates to the youngsters that they will not get caught up in it. Oh what a wicked web we weave!

Trust The Process.

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I would rather mixed messages than no message, no admittance that I, too, am a son of God.

Trust God.

Hi Robin

Thank you for your contribution. Regulars here on Spectrum will affirm that at least one of the British Union officers follows and contributes to the debates on this site. This, because we believe in freedom of speech, and believe that critics are sometimes worth listening to, and that they sharpen our learning. Alternately, if you give people enough rope…!

Various Church groups and Conferences record their request for visiting speakers with our office. For the most part these will be people on the celebrity circuit, affirmed by Adventist Media, General Conference events and more.

Our GC health department affirms the acceptance of evidence based medicine, yet our societies crave DIY alternative folk based remedies.

The dilemma for us is that banning people only serves to heighten their notoriety, making their voice more desirable to those inclined to the positions they hold.

It is no secret that the diversity of Adventist expression is as wide in the British Isles as in North America. I am afraid that resolution will only materialise through conversation, which continues to happen.

The course of events is currently uncomfortable, even entertaining, but we believe that good will eventually emerge.

To quote a local chestnut “don’t panic Mr Manwaring, don’t panic”.

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