Did Desmond Ford Receive a Fair Trial?

“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken(paraphrased)

Hierarchies do make things simpler, but why put someone else in authority over your personal relationship with God? It certainly doesn’t make for a better relationship.

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Ditto!!!
Again, most Des’ detractors HAVE NOT read his writings, have not listened to his preachings, know basically nothing about him. They just parrot what some SDA administrators told the public about Des.Let’s check on Danny:

@Danny: Can you please clarify this,
Have YOU read Des’ G View document? Y____ N____
Have you read ANY od his writings? Y____ N____
Have you ever watched any of his preachings? Y____ N____

I am sure you will gladly answer these questions.
Thanks

=-=-=-=-=-=-=
@gford1

I suspect the study group had 13 pastors, all retired for over 20 years.
Just a suspicion… :wink: :innocent:

Elmer, all this discussion about Testosterone is actually ridiculous. What is the real point? It’s certainly not to elevate the pastors in a respectful and honorable way. I see an attempt to denigrate them, to make them appear weak. This is not worth to keep the discussion going on, especially when @Danny even stated that most pastors are effeminate. This is another absurdity. :nauseated_face:

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Well Cass, every Adventist is properly trained to do that, isn’t it? It’s called “focused indoctrination”, aka brainwashing.

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We had him at Azure Hills Church in the fall too. Great perspective.

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Danny, if you want to maintain any credibility, you must explain what tapes did you hear. Are you referring to the tapes of the Glacier View meetings? Seriously? If so, please clarify!

What are you trying to spread now Danny? It seems that your sources are not that reliable, uh? I bet you heard it (several times) on Fulcrum7. But, as far as Gill is concerned, Des is alive and well.

By the way, do you remember how many times you ridiculed me at F7 for participating in discussions there? And how many times you suggested that I should “go back to Spectrum?”…
I am glad you have found complete freedom here, that nobody is telling you that you are writing too much, and that you should go back to F7. If anyone ever does it, tell me and I will file a complaint with the Spectrum Board. I will protect your right of freedom. Count on me!!! :+1::+1::+1:

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George, I wanted to reply to Danny, but I got a message that I had replied to him three times so I am going to tell you some things you already know—but I’m really talking to Danny. Re: Des’s presentation, we were told at the beginning of GV that his ms. was his presentation. He was not to address the conference; he was not to take part in any of the committees. Heppenstall told Elder Wilson, “I came here to hear that boy,” so a change was made, and Des spoke for an hour M to Th (4 nights). It wasn’t just Des talking; he was hounded by I think Athol Tolhurst and Arthur Ferch. I don’t think it was a good idea myself, it was mainly an opportunity to chastise him. According to Cottrell, few people read his ms. But of course, Cottrell is thrown aside as a nothing by the right wing. Cottrell, the best scholar we ever had. Cottrell who was the main editor of the SDABC. Cottrell who knew by heart the book of Daniel in its original languages—the gentleman whose father and grandfather, like himself, had faithfully served the church for generations. Cast aside by his inferiors. Anyway, Danny is correct that Des’s ms. was considered at Glacier View, and he presented at GV even though it was more like a pillory. But when it came to judgment, the consensus statements of the group were not used. The ten-point statement of where Des differed from the traditional church/Dallas Statement (in Neal Wilson’s mind they were the same thing) was used to judge Des. I would say four out of the six people who wrote it up could not have signed it themselves, but they did not know what it would be used for. What I am saying is clear from the recorded statements of the brethren and the scholars. I look forward to Danny one day casting aside his biasses and being surprised by the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ that one day may enlighten the Adventist Church.

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Maybe thats in Gods plan as well…lowered testosterone in old age so that we dont take on things we cant handle…God is wise…

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George…no use inventing the wheel mate. When at Avondale I did a research paper on Des’s Antiochus Epiphanes view and sites many of his arguments including Glacier View and his Apotelismatic Principle. I dont have any of that stuff anymore as I threw alot of it out when I left ministry. Over my time in ministry I had occasion to view alot of material, both audio and video of Desmonds position including the Ankerberg series. Both then as now I remain convinced that Des was wrong on many accounts…I do have some old books and documents from those days but I have no reason to question my own conclusions unless you have something new for me then lets have it brother?

Dont assume stuff George… you seem very bitter about the past as if you were hurt by the church…what happened?

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I am not alone George…you need to widen your reading on these matters…were you a pastor once?

Credibility…the kind that you have here would be great…:rofl:

I have already explained in posts to Gillian…

Yes George I do and also remember your vitriol there as well…seems like nothing has changed. I am enjoying getting the perspectives from “the other side” here and have appreciated the new multiple comment rule…some things here however I dont enjoy but I suppose you are trying to get even?

Now that’s a point.

The same reasoning goes for having lower testosterone at any age may be in “God’s plan” particularly among the profession of pastors who have impressed me as having delusions of grandeur of heavenly matters, being the arbiter of good and evil, not to mention knowing God’s mind and intent, so “we don’t take on things we can’t handle.” Perhaps it is God’s preference and will that effeminate pastors are preferable to having alpha or beta male pastors to preach his gospel.

Why did you leave the ministry?

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Hi Gill,
I am surprised about the message you got, about responding to Danny already three times. I never saw that before, I hope it’s to the KGC in action… :wink: :innocent:
So the system didn’t allow you more than 3 responses to one person? Strange. Let’s keep an eye on this “system”…

Regarding people NOT reading the ms, I know… one friend of mine who came from South America, who had a DMin from Andrews, didn’t read it, but “voted” rejecting it. Imagine the absurdity!!!

Well, after the Church’s verdict the “fairy tale” kept being taught to the church members as being the “central pillar of the Adventist Church,” in the words of the South American Division Secretary when he was sitting comfortably on the couch in the living room in my home, around 1984. If this is the case… the SDAC has no central pillar…

Hey, double check the “three replies” issue; but feel free to use me as a bridge if necessary.
Best to you and Des.

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Don’t assume stuff Danny…

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This indeed sounds as a wise advice. Thanks. I am always impressed (duh?) when people tell me what I need to do without even knowing what I have done or am doing. Though when someone says things like, “you need to widen your…” it sounds kind of condescending (dict: “show feelings of superiority; be patronizing”); but I am far from assuming that you would ever display such an attitude toward anyone.

Answering your question,
I never worked as a pastor, it was not my call, I knew it. My (full time four-year)Theology degree contained an extra 32 (or was it 40?) extra credits in Education above the regular load required from those who went to ministry. I wanted to be a Bible teacher, which I was for a little bit, then I finished my degree in Psychology. Later on I got my doctorate in Psychology in the US. I also taught Bible classes (full time job) here at La Sierra Academy from Jan/1994 to May/1995, before going into the psych internship.

Now, I don’t want to assume anything, so please tell me, why did you leave ministry?

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I am very sorry that you have such a distorted impression. If I wanted to “get even” I would have told you already several times to go back to Fulcrum7. But, I don’t think that way, this is not my approach toward people whose opinions differ from my opinions. Exchanging respectfully our opinions with others is a good thing, and also an exercise of maturity and civility; we learn not only about their opinions, but about their attitudes as well.

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George and Gill—it’s probably just that blue automated software suggestion I get sometimes suggesting I “reply to several posts at once,” rather than make multiple shorter posts.

I just X it out so I can see the preview window and ignore it.

No worries, Gill. :slight_smile: @gford1

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I’ve gotten the message that says “you’ve responded to this poster 3 times (or whatever number it says), why not respond to other posters”. Or something to that effect.

Yes…keep posting! It’s not from the Spectrum Administrators.

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