I invite you to compile all of the statements Paul made about the Law in Galatians. He called upon us to respect the Law–within reason-- without trying to bring it back. In the vocabulary of the Bible, the Law is its first five books and the 613 commandments therein. (It’s pretty clear that Ellen White didn’t realize that, and consequently most of us don’t either.)
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- Was ellen g.white persecuted in America by the American SDA leadership ?
- Was she shunned aside to Australia
- Do we see still now in America the rejection of her writings and the continuation of that spirit that entered the SDA AMERICAN divisions
Quartey’s comments about Ellen White’s reference to earthquakes as a result of water and limestone remind me of a similar scientific update to her “pure soft water” for drinking before scientists said that water with minerals in it are better for health…until they discovered that calcium in hard water embedded in cholesterol to make hardening of arteries, so that oops, Ellen White was right after after!
Ellen White admitted mistakes and said, “We have many lessons to learn and many, many to unlearn.” CW 33, and she said we should be open to new truth “in every generation…” COL 127. The might disqualify most of the church because of inertia and not wanting to consider what’s new from Scripture.
There’s a lot of talk of EGW, and I know she’s mentioned in the article quite a bit, but the larger issue I see is the authors view of the Bible. I believe each story in scripture is designed to reveal a different aspect of God’s character. I particularly take issue with the idea that the OT God is not the same as Jesus or NT God. If God orders something we don’t agree with (Amalekite killing) then the author concludes that the prophet must have been wrong. But there are so many stories/verses that show God’s mercy in OT. And Jesus clearly taught that the majority of people would end up in hell. So I think we misunderstand God in OT and NT when we don’t look at the full picture of His character. He is love and He also let His Son die on a cross. I really believe that if we hold God to our standard of right and wrong as the author suggests, then we will limit God to our standards instead of being elevated to His. We cannot sit in judgment of God and then expect to have a God that is larger than we are. We might as well just dream up our own concept of God and live by that. The author doesn’t agree with samuel, another author wil not agree with Moses, another with Paul…etc. etc. etc. Prophets are not perfect but unless we believe that when they wrote the Bible they were speaking under Gods inspiration we cannot have a unified Christian church!
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A point that I believe the article misses is the immediate context and circumstances under which a prophet gave the counsel. If circumstances change the wisest choice may change as well. In her day EGW counseled to not let the work suffer over the issue of “black” integration etc. In the late 1800’s this may have been correct advise, doesn’t mean it is so today and That doesn’t mean the prophet was wrong. Jesus said several times that He had much to teach His disciples but they were not ready “at that time”. So obviously there are issues He didn’t push cuz they couldn’t handle them…but that changed later. He wasn’t wrong for not pushing them, at that time. I believe her advice made sense then, should be re-evaluated under current circumstances and if needed, changed. This can all be done without her being wrong.
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Thanks, @elmer_cupino:
You said:
In response:
I believe Genesis 2, and don’t think Ellen White was wrong.
Also, this doesn’t seem like a good argument: Essentially, that God made Adam’s genitals, so God must have wanted Adam to buff 'em, and bring himself to orgasm, until God made Eve.
In other words, I’m saying:
Q: “What was the reason for creating his genitalia?”
A: So that Adam could sexually penetrate Eve.
Also, “masturbation is a laboratory on how to cope with enormous deep feelings before entering into long-term commitment”?
To start, how does this intersect with Matthew 5:28?
I’m probably not going to believe any response but “Badly.”
HA
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Must’ve cost the church an arm and a leg….
HA
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Remember in Genesis 2 Eve was an afterthought. What was the initial intent for Adam’s genitalia before Eve was created? Or was Adam’s structure modified to include his genitalia when God thought of creating Eve because according to the narrative “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him" as “no suitable helper was found.” Except the Bible does not say so.
The mind is a potent organ. One does not have to look at a woman “lustfully” to relieve biological tension and bring it back to its equilibrium.
Just my opinion based on my 35 years of clinical experience being a child and adolescent psychiatrist.
Any bible texts supporting EGW’s assertion that masturbation is offensive to God and might prevent salvation? The contention that “I was shown…” will not be accepted.
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An SDA I know married an Evangelical (both 2nd marriages and later in life), and at the wedding reception, they had a Q&A session as a means of allowing the guests from either side to get to know the other party a little better. One question from an Evangelical guest of both partners was when did they get saved. I was curious how the SDA side would answer that one, and indeed, gave the sort of answer I would expect from an SDA, which I’m sure was quite a shock to the Evangelicals present.
However, it made me wonder about the pressure growing up in Evangelical denominations to have such an experience they can point to with certainty. Do you ever wonder how really real it is for some of them? Is it manufactured for some of them? Do they go through life with guilt that they never had their Damascus Road experience but instead faked it?
The world is a strange place. People try to fit.
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Exactly. Our lot is not benefitted by the existence of Ellen White is not a
Also: I enjoy @PapaAfful’s spirited writing, a lot. But I think this argument around Canaan is rather flawed; pretty much paragraphs 3 through 7 of this essay.
Put another way, how would the extinction of the Amorites, or any of the other groups in that region, have looked if God had unambiguously commanded it? What would we expect to see that was different than what we see?
The best writing I’ve ever read on this topic was but a six-paragraph essay, included as an intro to the book of Joshua, in the NIV Study Bible.
It’s titled “The Conquest and The Ethical Question of War.” I’d strongly suggest that people who have labored under the idea that God commanded “genocide” in Canaan closely study this text. I find myself going back, over and over, to its sharp, commanding writ.
And, yes, prophets can make mistakes. In the Bible, they made quite a few. Ellen White made a bunch.
The stuff she gets right though, is shockingly right. Now, I don’t know how much of it she plagiarized, and how much came from her own pen. At the very least, we can say she didn’t make a mistake in the writers she copied. 
HA
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I’m thinking there were other body parts on his mind, seeing as how his accusations were of an unproven sexual nature, as they always were…
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Thanks, @elmer_cupino:
You said:
In response:
I think your error, Elmer, is in interpreting the idiomatic narrative flow of Genesis 2 as indicating Eve was an “afterthought.” I don’t think that the term “afterthought” coheres with the idea of an omniscient God.
I’m not a Hebrew scholar. But my impression is that the story is written the way it is, not only to give a singular focus to the dramatic creation of Eve but, also, to emphasize Adam’s utter lostness without her.
Indeed, one can read that it is this precise, connective fact which, in the subsequent chapter, moves Adam to consume the forbidden fruit, without even a word of protest, when Eve gives it to him.
We should no more imagine that God hadn’t thought of a way to perpetuate humanity, in Genesis 2, than we should believe that, in Genesis 3, He needed Adam & Eve to explain to Him who told them that they were naked, or if they’d eaten the fruit.
You said:
In response:
a) Respectfully, you haven’t answered the question: How does your statement, “Masturbation is a laboratory on how to cope with enormous deep feelings before entering into long-term commitment," intersect with Matthew 5:28?
b) If you go to donate at a sperm bank, you’re sent, with a sterile cup, into a private room containing pornographic magazines. This is the only kind of medical facility in which pornography is standard equipment, and in which its use, as part of a medical process, is routine.
So, yes, “the mind is a potent organ.” But that’s exactly why sperm banks include copies of Oui and Hustler…and also why Christ said that lust = adultery, or fornication.
You said:
In response:
Yes: Matthew 5:28, for the reasons I gave above.
That is, unless you’re about to tell me that, typically, acts of masturbation do not involve lust.
Are you?
HA
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Why don’t you tell me since I asked the question…or not?
Yes, the teacher that refuses to share the knowledge they have for fear they will lose their position as the keeper of secrets…
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"Perhaps a better question to ask is, why wouldn’t white (State) conferences disband and join their Regional brothers and sisters."
A more equal playing field would be to reorganize everything and get rid of a few “layers” of church government while we are at it.
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"We might as well just dream up our own concept of God and live by that."
To a far degree- we do just this. 
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You are too funny…thanks for the link.
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George, this is so true about the much more relaxed and confident experience of the Baptists who had the unshakable assurance of being “once saved always saved.” I experienced their spiritual relaxation when my wife and I left the SDA church in 1975 and joined the Yucaipa Baptist church in 1977. We were part of a Sunday School class for young marrieds called Genesis, and since I was an offset press operator working at University of California, Riverside (UCR), I agreed to help write up and print a bi-monthly Genesis newsletter for our class.
It was called The Sunday Paper, and in one of the December issues around 1980 the question was asked, “What do you plan to do in this coming year?” We had a class of about 30 young marrieds and most of the answers were predictable but absolutely positive:
–Finish my college degree
–Drive to Idaho to visit with relatives
–Take our new boat to the Colorado river
–Fly to Hawaii for vacation
–Add a new deck to our house
–Go on a mission trip to Mexico
–Get pregnant and have a baby
After I typed up all those comments for our newsletter, I asked myself what I planned to do the following year. And what immediately came to my mind was “To Survive.” And that is what I typed at the end of the Genesis class list. I printed the newsletter and passed it around to our Sunday School class the following Sunday.
When the next Sunday School rolled around, the leader of our class named Mike came up to me with a serious look on his face and said he was concerned about my answer “To Survive.” I don’t remember the conversation we had, but what I do remember is my spiritual eyes were OPENED. I thought to myself, “If we Adventists have the most truth of all churches, how come I’m so miserable about my faith and these ‘truth diminished’ Baptists are so much happier than me?”
This took place around 1980, and I was stunned at how much I was still living in ENORMOUS FEAR that any little “cherished” sin was going to keep me out of Heaven. And I was living in fear of the Time of Trouble and the severe persecution of the church which could all come crashing down on America and me at any moment! So from my badly tainted Adventist perspective, “Too Survive” was the best I could hope for in the coming year.
Fortunately for me, that conversation with Mike was the catalyst used by the Holy Spirit for me to dig deeply into scripture for many years until I DID find a strong assurance of my salvation and where I did find at least some relief from all my end-time fears. And then to my utter amazement, the Holy Spirit sent me BACK to the SDA church at La Sierra University in 1989.
I feared the worse that all that crushing Adventist paranoia and anxiety was going to be heaped back on me again. But I praise God that did not happen at the La Sierra church. Instead, I became part of Destination Sabbath School in October 1989 when it started and I am still faithfully attending each Sabbath in July 2020 (Currently attending online by Zoom because of Covid-19). My spiritual journey with the loving members and wise grace oriented pastors of the La Sierra church has been a superior and wonderful experience together. Our La Sierra church always LIFTS UP JESUS and always pours out God-sized love that CASTS OUT FEAR.
As I look back on my spiritual journey I have only the highest gratitude for our Baptist brothers and sisters who taught me how to relax in Jesus and actually enjoy my spiritual life and journey.
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The capacity to lust is normally achieved during early adulthood and on. It requires full understanding of what a relationship should be and it’s sexual consequences. Masturbation occurs way earlier than this developmental milestone.
P
I agree with you but how would you explain Genesis 2:20 “So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.“ Short of any mental gymnastics, was Adam really expected to find a suitable partner?
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