Do You Really Want to Know?

(Frankmer7) #404

Lol! Twenty characters…


(Kim Green) #405

You have to admit that the common person would think a show entitled: “Last Generation Theology” would be a religious science fiction series! Of course, there are always more topics/groups to exploit such as Doug B’s, “The Last Cave Man”…:grin: What a block buster that one would be…lol

(Frankmer7) #406

That’s what legalism does! Get around things in other ways, but succumb to pressure over the socially/religiously unacceptable issues determined by the group.

I once listened to Doug Bachelor live (don’t ask!) boast about not wearing a tie clip, while preaching on the evils of jewelry in the heart of midtown Manhattan. Meanwhile people outside the doors were battling with loneliness, drugs, homelessness, etc. But the faithful inside were shouting, Amen! I wanted to throw up.

A friend once told me that a bracelet for a woman is unnecessary adornment. When I questioned about an expensive watch, that was considered ok, because it has a function.
And the point is that it’s all so out of the orbit of what is central to Christian faith and life.

Legalism, I tell ya! Get ya every time!


(Frankmer7) #407

He had Hollywood connections! Lol!


(Kim Green) #408

YES!!! There could still be a future there for him. :wink:


Legalism is when you believe that you deserve to be saved, or that God has to love you, since you kept the law, or since you are a Jew, or an SDA, or a Catholics, etc.

Or when you reduce the plan of salvation to a series of actions/transactions that will assure you access to God’s kingdom (works, gifts to charities, repetitions of prayers, etc).

When we forget that we are saved by grace through faith then it’s legalism.

(Kim Green) #410

Thank-you for your reply.

So, does it matter whether or not one is Adventist…is it necessary?

(Frankmer7) #411

The NT focuses far more on legalism as the attempt by one group to impose a set of standards/Law upon another in order to gain salvation/membership in the inside group. This is what Galatians, the most overt polemic in the NT against legalism, is all about. This hits too close to home for Adventism, and why the book is never dealt with sufficiently in Adventist circles.

The whole idea of trying to do good works with all the right motives in order to avoid being legalistic springs more from protestant piety than from the NT. No one ever has all the right motives 100% of the time. We’re simply called to do good in the world because we belong to Christ. It’s our calling, whether or not all our thinking and feeling behind it is 100% in place. If we wait for that, we’ll all go around in circles.

The personal legalism that is seen in the NT is doing religiously pious deeds in order to be seen by others and gain esteem. This is the Pharisee and the tax collector, and some of Jesus’s admonitions in the Sermon on the Mount. Along with this, in Pharisaic Judaism, was the idea that if one balanced their bad deeds with more good ones on the scales of judgement, they were ok. A strange mixture of being taught that one was already on the inside by virtue of being Jewish, but having to still accumulate enough good deeds to ensure salvation in the end. The law was central, and that is what a law centered religion produces.



(jeremy) #412

read descriptions of manna, james (Exodus 16)…nobody boils bread…loaves of bread didn’t fall from the sky during israel’s wandering in the desert…

(Kade Wilkinson) #413

Lets just say for the sake of conversation that we take everything you wrote above as a given. How would that have a bearing on my original statement that


(Kade Wilkinson) #414

May I recommend a $6 investment…


It depends on what you mean by being an Adventist…

Adventism was supposed to be a movement, not a denomination.

If being an Adventist means that you are longing for the return of Christ and that you are looking for accomplishing God’s will in the present time, then, yes, it matters.

But if it means belonging to a denomination with a particular name, a particular culture, particular traditions, etc, whose goal is to show the rest of the planet that we were right after all, then, no, it doesn’t matter.

(Frankmer7) #416

Thanks! Try J. Louis Martyn on Galatians, as well. The Anchor Bible Commentary. Some brilliant insights!


(Kade Wilkinson) #417

I haven’t heard of him, and nothing against him, but this year I’m trying to limit my religious reading as much as possible to authors whose names are prefixed with “Saint.”

(Frankmer7) #418

Ok…just thought you may be open to suggestions, as well, Kade.


(Kade Wilkinson) #419

I’m adding it to my list… unfortunately my too-read list has more books on it currently than I read all last year.

To clarify, I was using the quote of you to make a general recommendation, not one specifically for/to you.

(Frankmer7) #420

I get it! Time is limited!



In fact, the Bible shows that the problem is twofold: on one hand, there are the legalistic people (“We have to wash our hands before eating”) and on the other hand, there are the presumptuous ones (“We have Abraham as our father”).

It is very easy to fall into one of these ditches.

This is why we need the Holy Spirit to guide us.

(Frankmer7) #422

And those presumptuous ones were often the ones scrupulously engaging in ceremonially washing their hands in the NT. Religion can produce both at the same time. Strange phenomenon.


(Cfowler) #423

Well, Leah has her partner Mike Rinder…we could be two amigos on a mission. :grinning: