Seventh-day Adventist YouTuber Justin Khoe and his wife, Emily, recently attended protests in Portland which left them with more questions than answers. So, in the June 19 episode of his “I’m Listening” series, Khoe sits down with his friend, Pastor John T. Boston II, to discuss the #BlackLivesMatter movement, what it’s like to be a Black man in America, and ways to support the needs of the oppressed.
Khoe writes in the video’s summary:
With the killings of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery and so many more Black Americans we have seen the world come alive around the cry, "#blacklivesmatter." So, after a lifetime of silence, Emily and I decided to try and get involved. To educate ourselves and to lend our voice at our local #blm protest. What we saw there was both inspiring and challenging. While there was much to be admired and celebrated there was also enough for us to feel uncomfortable. So, while we couldn't protest in good conscience... we were still looking for some way for us to get involved that would make a difference. This is I’m Listening.
I wish people would just stop with all the racism talk. The problem in Minneapolis was police brutality, not racism. The problem in Atlanta was resistance to arrest, not racism.
No, we should not support any specific ethnic group more than another. In the great U.S.A. we have a constitution that protects all citizens. If people are mistreated it is not because of a bad structure it is because of chosen bad behavior. ALL LIVES MATTER, EVEN THE BABIES!
It is hypocritical to support a group that claims to care for lives when they turn around and destroy peoples lives and livelihood and ignore the many lives hurt or killed in Chicago, Baltimore, New York and the real hood, Planned Parenthood. Democrats are the most hypocritical government party in existence within our nation.
How could you not know? The violent people were not there to demonstrate sympathy for anybody. They were there because they were vandals and thieves and masochists. (Not a few of them were very likely racists.)
And do you think that the raid on that car dealer was an on-the-spot idea?
If we ignore a problem, it does not exist! Simple isn’t it! Let not talk about something we don’t understand or don’t wish to understand. Ignore, ignore, carry on life as usual. I have news for those type of thoughts and ideas…it don’t work, never has. Ostrich syndrome!!
It just beats me … how deeply ingrained racism is. Even here.
Of course, all lives matter, but when the house at the end of the road is burning, I am not sending the fire brigade to hose down all houses - because all houses are equal.
As to whether or not there is a racial bias … the statistics are ample and clear - police brutality is far more frequent towards people of colour than white people. You are more likely to be arrested, incarcerated, executed in the US if you are black.
Black on black crime is a serious issue and ought to be named … as one of the dire consequences of social injustice that has lasted for more than two centuries.
Your fire analogy shows you really know very little about fighting fire. A fire fighter doesn’t start with fighting the fire from where it started or from where it is currently but rather where it is intending to go.
That means you keep the fire from spreading first. So you do protect the buildings and property around the fire even knowing that some buildings and property will continue to burn. Your concern is not with the lives being taken, but rather the color of skin that is taking lives. You would prefer that 100 lives are lost by the same color skin than one life lost at the hands of a different skin. You do so because if fits a ideology rather than fits a humanity issue. So you attack those who say “all lives matter” because it seems to attack your ideology. Others feel more along the lines of Christ ideology, that is, all lives matter. The spread is not white cops killing black men, it’s black men killing black men. People who come from 70% fatherless homes, where education is not a priority, and where the concept sells in the media much better than the truth.
You need not be puzzled. I have been called out for my stats time and time again. I want to see yours. I believe blacks commit something like 60% of the crimes. Maybe that is the reason why they are arrested more, etc.
But perhaps I am wrong. I will stand corrected if you can show it. Your move.
And I am wondering why black on black crime is a result of social injsutice.
Actually, with BLM folk pulling down statues of Lincoln, Roosevelt and Washington, heros that are white, this has turned into a race war. It is not racism that is being attacked but white American culture.
I am interested in hearing a response to that idea, but why would anyone tear down a statue of Lincoln, the great emancipate? Or Roosevelt who was the first to have a black man eat at the White House, an act that caused him to be attacked by the Democratic Party for the rest of his life? So, no this is not about racism, but about the desire to destroy white American culture.
As Carlson said, if they can topple your heroes, they can do anything to you.
First, it’s not about “White American Culture”. You seem to fall into a trap of calling American Culture something entirely different. There are plenty of black Americans who are not happy about any of this either. But, they have day jobs, like most people who don’t run around and engaging in petty vandalism and calling that justice.
Secondly, As @GeorgeTichy points out in his reply to the other article:
I can feel that you are a sensitive person who can respond emotionally to a tragic condition that is present in our society.
So, it’s not about logic or reason. It’s not about facts. It’s about how someone feels about … how other person feels. . So, it’s a circle of feelings.
For example, how does this picture make you feel?
If it doesn’t threaten you in any way, it’s because you are not feeling it. You should feel rage. You should feel racism.
As the writer quoted in the article below days…
“A business’ photograph of men with blackened faces culturally says to me, “Whites Only.” It says people like me are not welcome.”
It makes no difference that these guys are coal miners. It makes no difference that restaurant celebrates that heritage and hard work of people of certain occupation. Facts and context makes no difference anymore. The only thing that matter are people’s feelings.
Thank you for enlightening me about fire fighting. You are indeed correct, I know very little about fire fighting.
That you see me “attacking” all lives matter with my statement informs me, nonetheless, that you know very little about me (ironically one who has grown up fatherless in a very low income home). My responsibilty, I guess, to make matters clearer.
A simple question from a simple person, do we (the whole of civil society) know specifically what BLM is demanding? In listening to the above interview one might be persuaded to adopt a BLM viewpoint without a comprehensive and rational understanding of what is being promoted. I have not seen a balanced (both sides of the debate) on Spectrum.
The problem is that you are not looking at this issue from a POV of proper and constrained research methodology.
Any police brutality must be contextualize in police encounters with any cross section of population that you have to analyze. 60% of all crimes are committed by black offenders. Naturally, you would and should think that such would result in more frequent encounters with police, and thus more brutality in cases where people resist arrest…
You have to keep in mind that police is brutal and violent in a scope of police work that requires brutality and violence. It’s naive to think otherwise. That’s what we do as a society. We delegate violence to police that is to serve as deterrent and punishment of people who break the law. Certainly, police could have more training that would make any such encounters more procedural as opposed to accidental with police overreacting to overreaction.
But … could it be that you are more likely to be arrested and incarcerated if you are black… Because you are likely to be committing crime if you are black. Likewise, could it be more likely not because you are black, but because you are breaking the law? How can you tell? It’s simple. If you are arrested while breaking the law… It’s not because you are black.
Of course we could subsequently discuss why black people commit more crime, and we can be more nuanced about it to see what kind of black people do, and what we can do to alleviate this problem. But we can’t discuss that if you think that police is the sole issue in all of this, and that ominous racism pushed people to choose a path of career criminal.
The strarting point of all the upheavals has been George Floyd. And there has been ample video footage on his arrest as a “suspect” - not just the snuff video that filled the social media in full length. So let’s start here: In civilized countries a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Does the delegation of violence to the police include torturing innocent people to death after their arrest, lying handcuffed on the street (or hunting them down as in a case a few weeks earlier) just because that person belongs to a group that happens to have a higher incidence of crime? Well - for me this is a rhetorical question. How about you?
You claim that “we delegate violence to police”. From a European perspective this is hard to believe. Gun laws in the US suggest you delegate violence to anyone - again, underlining the complexity of the issue (just thinking of the heavily armed militia men at the capitol in Michigan…).
Yes, let us reflect, let us discuss. And yet - just as my life matters, and yours, I believe black lives matter.
When someone argues against or minimizes those who say all lives matter you are indeed agreeing with groups such as BLM who take that to mean their cause is being hijacked. That could not be further from the truth. It is a way of dividing black from white by blacks which is no better than whites dividing blacks from whites. It seems to me we both black and white should find both to be troublesome.
You are begging the question. Below is a case of Tony Timpa, in which case the guy is on drugs and freaking out, and begins complaining that he can’t breathe fairly early. They restrain him as they crack jokes before ambulance arrives. He begs for his life. He dies. There’s a vast difference between ignorant negligence that results in death, and intent… which you seem to imply above.
Hence, you seem to misunderstand what I’m saying. I’m not saying that simply because someone belongs to some profile group… then gloves are off. When it comes to outcomes of Police encounters, it breaks down to:
Police training to be able to handle these situations and keep everyone safe.
Various level of escalated violence and resistance on behalf of person
Any history of violent past that police may be able to look up and identify, which may escalate certain measures by police.
So, it’s not merely an issue of “he’s black, therefore he’s more violent”. That’s not what I’m saying. You are approaching these claims from statistical disparity, hence I’m adding viable constraints in which statistical disparity you are observing should be contextualized in amount of crime that may result in elevated police encounters, and which may result in violent police encounters.
I’m not really sure how relevant it is to the discussion other than saying that European gun laws are different from the US ones. Obviously I’m not going to wait for the police to show up if I see a woman being raped. And obviously if I carry a gun, I would use it as a tool to fend off violent criminals.
On the other hand, obviously, if I’m not in my house while it’s being burglarized… there’s advantage to police either stopping the burglary in progress… or chasing them down.
The idea that black lives somehow matter less in the US than any other lives… is demonstrably absurd.
The toppling of the statures was not an attack on Black American culture. Of course American culture contains both threads and they are intermingled in many ways, but toppling a statue of Lincoln and scrawling “Kill Whitey” on the base of another shows the thrust. And the present protest is about whites killing blacks, not blacks killing blacks or blacks killing whites. So I think I am correct on the threat.
As far as feelings go, I agree. When it is feelings, there is no way to answer. On another thread, we discussed the jogger who was shot. Someone said blacks are afraid to go out for fear of being killed by white people. The facts are they are very unlikely to be killed by white people by a long shot. It just very rarely happens. That does not allay the felling. But I am not sure what would except a willingness to look at the facts objectively.
One radio commentator noted that if police departments are systemically racist, even though some have majority minorities as cops, and the chief is a black, what remedy is there? Even minority cops are racists?!
There is no convincing feeling. Unless there is that willingness, there is no solution.
The picture is of a coal miner, who appears to have just reached the surface. He may be slightly threatening, but could just be exhausted. Why rage or racism? He looks like a white guy from the mine.
Frustrating and disappointing, isn’t it? I really don’t understand how some people can put racism + Christianity together in their lives. They are mutually exclusive, so I wonder which is actually the real dominating one in their lives…