Donald Trump and Conservative Christians: A Fatal Attraction

Much of this is an invention of the left. But lets look at each one.

Racist: I do not see that this is so. Today in Realclearpoltics from Van Jones;

Jones also warned the Democratic party to wake up, that Trump’s State of the Union address was a warning shot that he is going after the black vote. Jones said Democrats need to get “clinical” and less emotional about a possible “split off” in that black vote.

Well, you will say, he is still a racist. Most racist are not going after the vote of the race they hate.

Misogynistic: He is a womanizer. That does not necessary mean a misogynist. Women have been doing fine under his administration.

Homophobe: this is the most ridiculous charge of all. It is just not the caee.

Xenophobic: The Majority muslim ban issue was such a made up deal. Obama had designated those countries as dangerous, and he wanted to ban people from coming. It was the Obama had thought most dangerous.
And though his rhetoric is anti-mexican, he was willing to admit 1.6 million Dreamers in exchange for some wall support, but Pelosi would not agree. That does not sound like a xenophobe.

Narcissist I agree here. He is.

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It is so hard to imagine how a Seventh-day Adventist could be a Nazi and supporter of Hitler, or how a church-going person could own slaves, or a how a church administrator could have committed war crimes during the Rwandan Genocide. Heretofore, we have relied on imagination and an empathetic effort to put ourselves in others’ shoes. But now in the age of Donald Trump, we are paradoxically taken back in time. As we talk to his supporters, we discern the mindset of those who enabled and cheered on Hitler, slaveowners, and the machete-swinging killers in Rwanda.

Not every Seventh-day Adventist is a Christian. We have learned this fact in a highly-experiential way during this age of Donald Trump.

Seventh-day Adventists are experts at twisting Scripture. Seventh-day Adventist opponents of women’s ordination have taught us all of the clever arguments and rationalizations that can be used to excuse harm directed toward others. Seventh-day Adventist support of Trump’s white nationalism, Neo-Nazism, and hard-core racism is a logical and predictable consequence of Seventh-day Adventist opposition to women’s ordination and the twisting of Scripture upon which that opposition rests.

Seventh-day Adventists are a reflection of society. Our doctrine that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of biblical prophecy is a myth and joke, given that Seventh-day Adventists are not in any historically-valid sense comparatively advantaged either in doctrine or behavior regarding how other people should be treated.

We are experiencing a crisis of identity. History is ravaging our dogma as history pummeled theology during the nineteenth century. The crisis of identity we are experiencing is not the crisis of historicism Ernst Troeltsch observed in the aftermath of World War One. Instead, the crisis we are experiencing, one century too late, is ironically a dawning of historical consciousness, which is the awareness that all knowledge is of a historical character and that everything we see, including ourselves, is historically conditioned.

The age of Donald Trump is catalyzing Seventh-day Adventist awareness that our clothes are filthy. We need to begin talking about ushering into our faith community a post-Seventh-day Adventist Seventh-day Adventism.

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Spectrum has done us a feat service in publishing this “errata” or “clarification”. I have no doubt that God can work through human obstacles like Trump…Glad to have read this explanation!

this important irony is devastating evidence that evangelicals themselves don’t believe or practice what they are calling others to believe and practice…this is reminiscent of israel’s sanhedrin in christ’s day, which he so unsparingly condemned…

trump adventists need to give their heads a shake…as this article articulates so well, their choice of trump is part of an effort to trample on the rights of others in order to preserve, as they see it, their own rights…but will they eventually turn against fellow adventists in the manner prophecy specifies…is this trampling on someone’s rights in order to preserve your own unrelated to turning him in to authorities in order to preserve your own life…

this mystery of iniquity, in which disciples of christ transform into disciples of satan without knowing it, is what i see happening here…

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Good afternoon,

As always thanks for reading. I have wrestled long with whether I should jump in and comment, but I decided to do so in this case because your comment shows an appalling ignorance to the dynamics of these social ills. A word in introduction - it seems from your “evidence” that someone who is a racist, etc. would never do anything that would be of any benefit to, or associate themselves in any positive way with, the target group. Except that’s not how racism, etc. works. These social ills when they infect someone are about how a person feels about the target group and the totality of their influence and impact. For example, in the Jim Crow South, Blacks and Whites had positive relationships that on the outside looked like real friendships, assisting one another, sharing with one another, etc. But underneath that was a system where those same friendly White folk knew they could take advantage of those Black people any time they wanted and often were in ways and means that the Black people could not even access. But someone like you would look at that relationship and say, “Look that White man sold that Black man some property. He wouldn’t do that if he were a real racist.” “Look at that! He wants that Black person’s help. He wouldn’t ask their assistance if he were a racist.” I’m sorry. That’s just not an accurate view of racism.

Trump has a history of racial discrimination. Also, please check the footnotes of the piece where I link to places that list the policies that have effected each of the groups I mentioned. I don’t make the accusation lightly. To say a racist wouldn’t want Black votes is not logical. He certainly will if those Black votes are going to be in his service, especially if he wants to continue to harm those Black people through his policies. Women are not doing fine under his administration (check the link). You gave no defense for the homophobia so I’ll assume you have no argument there. You admit that Trump’s rhetoric is anti-Mexican. Ergo he either is a xenophobe (because he believes that rhetoric) or he is a sociopath because he’s willing to use harmful rhetoric to get what he wants. You tell me which you prefer because they’re both equally bad to me.

Finally, let me note that my belief about Trump on this issue is not even the point of this piece. Even if he were not all of these things I still would have written the vast majority of what ended up here. I realize that you can’t control what people comment on in your work, but I also find it interesting that so far no one has been willing to rebut the actual centerpiece of the argument. I normally wouldn’t have commented on this as it is not germane to that centerpiece and doesn’t ask a question where I think the answer would be beneficial. However I broke my own rules and wrote this comment because I couldn’t let this uninformed argument stand without a response. Feel free to reply, but I won’t be returning to this space.

God Bless,

Jason Hines

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Hi,

Thanks for reading. In response to the one issue you took with the piece, It’s important to note what I said. I did not say there were no threats to religious liberty from the left. I said there is no “serious movement” akin to what Dr. Jennings alluded to in his piece. There are threats to religious liberty on both sides and I do my best to call them out. For example, I was critical of some elements of the Equality Act for not being explicit enough in protecting religious liberty. I was critical of mayors who said that Chic-Fil-A couldn’t be in their city. But isolated incidents here and there over the years does not a movement make. There has been a religio-political movement organized for nearly 5 decades that has sought to remove people’s rights in order to protect and establish Christian theology from a political perspective. They coalesced around school discrimination (keeping Black Children out of their White Christian schools) then shifted to abortion in the late 70s early 80s and now are engaged in stymieing the expansion of rights to the LGBTQ+ community. That is a movement, and that movement and its adherents are now one of the most important political bases of the Republican party. I don’t see anything like that happening on the left, but please educate me if I am wrong.

Thanks,

Jason Hines

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Are there any of my facts, statements, that are disputed, or invalid?
If you check them on google or Wikipedia you will find they are all accurate — regrettably, the FAKE NEWS shows abject avoidance of reporting ANY favorable statistics / news of Trump’s stellar achievements — they only defame him.

ARKDREY

You ask what specifically did Trump do, to reduce black unemployment ?
Have you been living in a rabbit hole these last three years ??

Were you not aware that under Obama, corporations had the highest taxes of any country on the planet — a whopping 35% — when Ireland taxed corporations only 12% ??

Naturally corporations gravitated to countries that taxed them less, and sequestered their profits abroad.

Trump reduced the corporate tax rate to 21% — resulting in a repatriation of several trillion dollars of sequestered funds. Companies used these funds to build more factories and hire more workers in US.

With a lower tax rates, companies started re- building factories in the US, resulting in an enormous number of new manufacturing jobs.

Most new jobs are created by small companies, who under Obama, were harassed and burdened by a plethora of regulatory restrictions.

Trump eliminated a vast number of restrictions on businesses, allowing companies more profit margins and ability to hire more people.

Also Trump has been assertive and aggressive at cajoling / persuading corporations to relocate factories to the US.

Also Trump’s aggressive border policy has resulted in a huge reduction of illegals crossing our southern border — these illegals undercut the wages of America’s working poor — Blacks and American Hispanics —
so now, thanks to Trump, the wages / salaries of these lowest paid workers are rising at a faster rate than for any other demographic.

No wonder the jobless rate is the lowest since the Bureau of Labor Statistics started collecting data — including historic lows for blacks, Hispanics, Asians, women, teenagers, nigh school drop outs !

And Trump, master of the ART OF THE DEAL, has crafted some magnificent trade deals, with Japan, with South Korea, with Mexico, with Canada, with China, and soon with Brexit- free Great Britain—.

These trade deals will have enormous benefit for our farmers, and factory workers when they are fully implemented — so expect continuing good employment figures, as just reported today for January — and also continuing rising wages / salaries!

Not to mention continuous successive highs for the DOW JONES, NASDAQ—trillions added in valuation, since Trump’s inauguration which benefits those workers who have 401Ks, IRAs and pension funds.

Even our own GENERAL CONFERENCE investment funds and pension funds for retired church workers, have benefited from Trump’s superb business policies, and stellar stock market values.

Not to mention an expected huge increase in tithe receipts from NAD, due to the enormous job opportunities now available and rising wages / salaries!

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I wish I could write so well. Thank you for stating that what the President of the United States SAYS is as important as what he does. Dr. Jennings lost me when he stated what people say does not matter as much as what they do. Words have enormous power. Talk to those who have experienced verbal abuse.

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“Remember that there will be difficult times in the last days. People will be selfish, greedy, boastful, and conceited; they will be insulting, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, and irreligious; they will be unkind, merciless, slanderers, violent, and fierce; they will hate the good; they will be treacherous, reckless, and swollen with pride; they will love pleasure rather than God; they will hold to the outward form of our religion, but reject its real power. Keep away from such people.” 2 Tim. 3:1-5 GNB

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Thank you for responding Jason. I am well connected to the gay pressure groups who are now employing similar tactics once used against gays. This is quite a strong pressure group that is dangerously a threat to free speech. Franklin Graham, is no lgbt sympathizer, but his anti gay rhetoric is not a cornerstone of his ministry. He had a crusade scheduled for the UK and these pressure groups got him banned.
I fear that the Equality Act passed by the House would be used as a legal sledgehammer to silence dissent. I do believe that sexual orientation should be include in Title 7 of the 1964 Civil rights Act.
There are strong held beliefs on both sides of this topic. Too often it seems to bring out the highest vitrole when opposite sides go at it. As a gay man I often feel like cannon fodder in the cross fire. I can sympathize with people like Mitt Romney at a time like this.
I believe hearts are won by winsome methods rather than by threats and intimidation

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It seems that Donald Trump is living (rent-free) in the head of Mr. Hines. Virtually every anti-Trump piece I’ve read for the past 3-years asserts the same nonsense in one form or another. Q: Does Hines know Mr. Trump personally? I think he arrogantly believes his insights into Trump’s motives, words, and actions are more accurate than those who do. Why not ask Dr. Ben Carson, for example, whether he believes the type of rhetoric Hines and others so self-assuredly put out for our consumption? Why not ask Larry Kudlow (Trump economic advisor, and a personal acquaintance of mine) how Trump’s policies were designed to help all Americans, especially minorities, to secure a brighter financial future with more opportunity? Their close relationships to the President would certainly yield more insight on the accusations we read here.
Hines also speaks of the power of Trump’s rhetoric, and how Jennings underestimates the impact of it in his piece. Is Jason unaware that his own “rhetoric” gives cover to the haters on his side of the political aisle? But hey, thanks for helping your fellow liberals feel more justified with the ridiculous Trump-Hitler (Nazi) comparisons. Your righteous words would never inspire an act of hate against a conservative, right?

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No, I’m a CEO with part of my education and career in international business… so hardly. :slight_smile:

It’s a misleading argument, since what matters is effective tax rate (what companies are actually paying) as opposed to the statutory one (what the law structures as a hard limit). I highly doubt that any corporation in the US was paying 35% during the Obama era. I doubt any were paying more than 20. They should fire their accountants if they did. Corporate structure allows for much trickier machinations with shifting the money around to minimize the net rev. Hollywood accounting grew way past Hollywood.

For example, look up why you should incorporate in Delaware, and it will give you a small hint of the tall stack of loopholes that have Corporations (which are legal persons) paying less in taxes than any comparable individual with income exceeding millions. I can discuss the broader implications of how such scheme protects economic dominance of the corporate elites, which use these corporations as a mask that gives them more legal and financial flexibility than … let’s say you.

My advice would be for any claim like that you have… try to prove the opposite first. If the claim stands… you are fine. If not… time to move back into reality.

Here’s an article from 2013 that will hopefully help you do just that.

https://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/

It’s an extremely naive narrative that’s lacks awareness of the US Corporate history, especially in the post WWII manufacturing era that resulted in many industrial cities like Detroit… when the tax rate was in 30%… yet it was described as the era where a single-earner parent could support a family?

Again, no corporation paid that rate, but the point is… corporate expansion is almost always leverage-driven. Shareholders have dibs on the profits, which they may subsequently re-invest towards expansion. But, from experience, the human factor in any business is the most costly factor. I pay a single employee twice the amount of our office rent expense. It would be naive to think that any excess income would be driven to even more employees. For companies to be competitive, they must maintain appropriate balance and keep the bloat down. Companies are generally very conservative with new hires… and given the nature of the corporate year-to-year budgets, once these are set these are generally perpetuated and kept. Any new employment are generally due to specific expansion efforts that can be realistically sustained.

These days, the trend is re-investing into automation as opposed to employees. With what’s coming in the next decade… Republicans will be ironically crying for more regulation on those types of things.

As far as Trump removing existing red tape for businesses… can you please show me some specifics beyond environmental impact deregulation?

Just to give you an example of how generic his orders are… here’s one of these:

“Unless prohibited by law, whenever an executive department or agency (agency) publicly proposes for notice and comment or otherwise promulgates a new regulation, it shall identify at least two existing regulations to be repealed.”

It doesn’t change the scope of the business regulation, and it doesn’t specify which regulations are to be repealed. It’s like a weight loss plan that tells you to try to eat something else instead of pizza. If that something else is donuts… you will not be losing any weight.

Again… this is SO NAIVE that it requires for me to unload an entire Macro Econ 101 before I can address the above point.

Well, maybe I can simplify it after all. Do you know what percentage of the US Jobs come from manufacturing sector? … it’s 8.5% :). That number had always been in historic decline since automation took over. So, to suggest that the answer to all of our economic woes is to go back to how we used to do things in 60s… and pay people to do that… it means a cascading effect of product pricing that simply can’t be competitive without some level of closed-border protectionism Trump attempts, and historically it simply doesn’t work… since the world moves on, and the nations that can capture that comparative advantage in production … do.

US will never be able to compete with China in manufacturing labor costs without diving into automation and off-shoring for cheaper labor. No amount of cajoling will resolve that. For any companies that try to follow Trump’s plan and run on patriotism and promises… well:

That’s like arguing that making college education more affordable undercuts the wages of high-earners. Yes, in some way it does, but in the broader scope of the economy there’s a net benefit for all that balances that out. As a society, we are better off with more efficient and educated workforce that drives all of us up.

Same thing with cheap illegal labor. These people contribute far more to our economy than they take.

It would be amazing, given that Trump hasn’t built the wall, or enacted any stronger security measures than these were under Obama and Bush.

Plus, you seem to be clueless as to how long these kind of social factors take in order to show up on the charts.

Trump seemed to have mastered magic somehow… or perhaps you should do a little reality check and consider more complex causes.

Yes… it has absolutely nothing to do with growth of communication technologies that allows American poor to be more educated, informed, and aware by merely browsing YouTube “How to” videos, and thus be more competent in things they wouldn’t be prior, and find employment faster online. But… your reasons sound better :slight_smile:

Trump and his magic wall :slight_smile:

Yeah… you are seemingly unaware of the farming issues in the US since the Trump trade wars. In Wisconsin alone there were 800 milk farms shut down in 2019. This “Everything is better than before” narratives doesn’t erase these problems.

Yes… Trump is a great CON man. He walks into a room with his alpha male ego, and people believe that he can do things he promises. Then, he collects bunch of cash from investors and hands it over to project managers after taking his cut, which he keeps whether project succeeds or not. If it does, then it’s his successful management. If it doesn’t, then it’s someone else’s fault.

Can you please show me a single instance when this man acknowledged that he screwed up and took responsibility for a failed business deal? It should clue you in as to how kind of person you are dealing with.

In the industry… it’s called “pump and dump”. You pump the investment into a business. Make it look like it’s a cash machine short-term. You dump it off on some other person who doesn’t know better. And when it crashes because it’s over-leveraged… it’s not your fault… it’s the buyer’s mismanagement.

That’s what’s Trump done with this nation so far and much of the corporate America and Military complex were only happy to ride the wave of this pump and dump scheme.

OF COURSE if you borrow a million dollars you will seem rich short term., until you can’t make payments, and then you are broke. Trump borrowing on your behalf isn’t any different. And he’s REALLY borrowing… from future environment, financial instruments, consumer solvency, global trade liquidity. He merely offsets the costs into the future to claim credit and benefits now. The longer-term consequences of these policies are disastrous.

So… give it a couple of years for that economic cocaine to wear out… and then you can talk about how much Trump did for you. But wait… you’ll likely will move on to the other end of that narrative… blaming Democrats for ruining this country.

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Likewise… I’ve asked you specifically about claims about Trump getting credit for black employment.

Can you please describe the real world chain of events that happens between Trump signing something SPECIFIC, please be specific about bills that you claim made a difference, and how these specific things contributed to lowering of black unemployment beyond the steady unemployment reduction since Obama era?

Just so you understand the absurdity of that bogus claim… here’s the unemployment progression before Trump took the office. Can you please point me to any sharp changes in that graph since Trump took over?

If I removed the years,numbers, and color from that graph, would you be able to accurately point to where Trump begins and Obama ends?

In fact, if we are to credit anyone for turning things around… with sharp changes in the graph above… it would be Obama.

Of course, the economic reality is far more complex than the dubious narrative of crediting a President with these economic boom/bust cycles.

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An article by a Christian attorney written in response to an article written by a Christian psychiatrist, along with the blog posts, serve to demonstrate just how polarized people are on today’s political topics in and out of our church. Jason Hines’ article was well written and thought provoking, meeting the needs of those who were bewildered or offended by Tim Jennings’ article, also well-written for his blog to stimulate thought. But, in my opinion, Dr. Hines and some comforted by his article have missed the central point Jennings was making. Some blog posts, with much huffing, puffing and moralizing, finger-pointing and labeling others support this. How one views both articles seems to depend on what lenses one is reading them with and the reader’s preexisting biases or political beliefs - no surprise. Because of this, some commenters attribute to Jennings views that he doesn’t hold. Writing about something (eg., why some Christians support President Trump or his policies) does not mean the same thing as owning those beliefs anymore than writing about racism makes one a racist. It would be interesting and enlightening to attend a round table discussion with these two authors and others in a collegial debate, definitions of common ground and thoughts on where we as Christians and a church go from here, even with differing opinions. It would surprise many that their suppositions about Dr. Jennings from his article were not accurate. It might even serve as an antiemetic for at least one respondent, and reassurance for others. “Come, let us reason together.”

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I wasn’t going to get into this ridiculous argument about a vulgar, unrepentant, man who, through the help of Russian propaganda machine, was elected to office. Is there anyone out there who really thinks Putin wants what’s best for America? Really? But your graph is TOTALLY misleading. The unemployment rate your graph shows is when the Bush administration, who allowed such unbelievable corruption and the deregulation of the banks that they almost completely collapsed our economy, and that was why there was a huge spike in unemployment. Any moron would know that. You must have a lot of nerve to even suggest that the unemployment numbers, in any way was caused by Obama. It was the stimulous that Obama put through that, over time, brought the unemployment down, and it carried on well into the Trump administration. Now, with the ridiculous tax give-away passed by the Republicans, we are back to over a Trillion dollar deficit again. It will catch up to us, mark my word.

I can’t believe you would even suggest that Obama caused the unemployment rise. Try looking up Country Wide…try and watch the movie “The Big Short”. Deregulation, a big Republican mantra, caused a collapse of the banks under Regan and again under Bush W. Stupid people don’t learn from history. When you let greedy people do what they want, you get a mess like we experienced in 2008.

As for comments about Trump…I won’t waste my time on such immorality. You could point to how Adolph Hitler brought Germany out of the great depression they suffered after WW1 in the 1920’s, and yet, he killed 4 million Jews for just being Jews. He inflated their currency to an absurd level and then used that worthless currency to pay off their war debts. Totally immoral act. Yet, Trump would say “that’s just smart business practice” just like he did when he was in debt in the early 1990’s for 1 Billion dollars and his lawyers and accountants had him form an IPO to which he transferred that indebtedness to those stupid enough to buy his stock, while personally taking that same billion dollars as a deduction on his personal taxes over the next 18 years when he paid no taxes. The government closed that loophole after they saw what he had pulled off. Those investors in Trump Inc. were the ones that ate that billion dollar loss. This is the kind of immorality that bothers me. It should bother everyone because this is who you let run the country.

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I must apologize. I did not read the comments you made under the graph…I guess you were making the same points I was trying to. I’m sorry. Your right…there would be no way to see where Obama ended and Trump began because the graph carries continues at virtually a continuous rate.

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Arkdrey, I agree with you completely and as a CEO and business advisor based in Tokyo Japan can vouch for your analysis and conclusions.

I have met and seen men like Trump up close, examined their business practices and methods as well as having seen the results of what they do.

The level of thinking and blind adoration of Trump is very troubling and surprising by the very people who should know better.

Shocking lack of discernment and understanding…

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As a child psychiatrist there have been those rare moments when in mediating between parents I can find no common ground to build on the best interest of the child. On those rare occasions I have gone to court to advocated for termination of parental rights, always a sad time. Likewise I see no common ground between Spectrum’s Trump proponents and opponents. When I meet my Lord someday, I will ask him give me a good psychodynamic formulation of what happened to our interpersonal relationships during the Trump years.

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Well done! Thanks for putting it down so clearly.

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