Pastor Doug Batchelor, speaker/director of Amazing Facts and senior pastor of the Sacramento Central Adventist Church says that women can minister (verb), but not be ministers (noun). In a sermon entitled "Women Pastors: A Biblical Perspective," Pastor Doug spent sixty one minutes laying out the argument against ordaining women as elders or pastors.
The Bible don’t say “you will not smoke” but we understand at we don’t do it because the Bible says at our body is the house to the Holly Spirit. So, I think at this the same about what the Bible says on who can to be ministry.
God bless you
I’ve watched this sermon, year or 2 ago, so I dont remember much. But what I do remember is, Pastor Doug at a later time took that comment back saying, he was only kidding…and I thought, now wait a second, it sure didn’t seem like you where kidding when you said it. I like Pastor Batchelor, he does many great things for the kingdom of God, and it was his sermons on in the Internet that brought me to this church. But, now, can you blame (some) people for thinking the way they do, when they hear such things? I dont think you can.
Having said that, I enjoy listening to his radio program (Bible Answers Live), I download it from his podcast and learn much from him and the people calling in. I especially like when folks from other denominations come to a better understanding of what we, Seventh Day Adventists, believe. Theres so much bad info out there about us, and this helps to diminish, some of it at least.
The Bible makes it pretty clear where God stands on the rolls that were created by God that beyond gender makes us distinct. Two things I have noted in denominations that put women in ordinated positions.
1.The message gets weaker and weaker as the message becomes more about what is felt (opinions) than what is Truth. (beyond our opinion)
2. Within a number of years after women are ordained - gender pride tendrils the denomination and soon gender distinction is added to the many truths that have become repulsive to the politically correct. At that point it becomes evident that Biblical distinctions themselves have become the problem rather than the solution and what used to be known in America as freedom OF conscience quickly becomes freedom from even knowing what a conscience is.
I pray that we turn this around and men will reassume the roll they abdicated as they become unwilling to convict and exhort because they too had relented to staying inside love as a feeling rather than love being something you do in spite of how it made you feel. That kind of courage is rare in SDA circles anymore and ordinating the fairer gender will make it even more rare.
Really? The Bible tells us that we should take care of our body as temple of the Holy Spirit, so smoking is clearly a sin against our Creator. There is no statement in the Bible that says that being a woman is a sin…
I do not know what books Pastor Doug has been reading. He is so far off. As I said in another post, he is demonstrating what is so common. That is most people who lived extreme, worldly lives have difficulty becoming centrist. They become extreme Christians, radicals, holier that all others.
I very much agree with Pastor Doug but I believe the answer lies in 1 Timothy 2:14 (NIV) “And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner” We know they both sinned and therein clearly lies the answer in scripture.
This is intriguing!
One of my most reliable parakeets told me today that there is a current effort made by the GC to influence the Divisions “to do the ‘right thing’ regarding WO.”
Which means, an actual anti-WO campaign. The parakeet told me that we should actually investigate if there is any money being spent on any of such effort. His (a male) body language and facial expression made me think that he knew more about the money issue than he was revealing.
I wonder if there are some Spectrumites who have any reliable connection(s) that could help to clarify this issue. You know, I don’t want to be mislead by a parakeet… But it would be interesting to get answers for these questions:
Is anyone at the GC level spending time trying to influence in any way the representation from the Divisions in general.
Has the GC printed any materials supporting the anti-WO side.
If so, has any money been spent on such an effort ?
If money has been spent, was it tithe money? And how much so far?
I wonder if Elaine @ageis7, who has so many connections with the “core SDAs” has heard anything about it.
Anyone else there with some clarifying info on it?
Have your parakeets been flying close to the LSU sanctuary thereby being able to eavesdrop from the pastoral staff? This is breaking news alright. I’ll have to check with my sources. One begins to wonder how effective the fundamental “checks and balances” are in our church. If there were truth to this, don’t you think a proper “cleansing of the sanctuary” would be indicated? This sounds more like the church being managed “ala” Amtrak.
I should (hopefully) get some clarification (aka more information) on this within a few days or a couple of weeks. That there is pressure from the GC we should not doubt. I am more interested on “how much” pressure they are applying and what are the world areas of their biggest concern.
There is almost no chance that WO will be a YES in San Antonio. The NO vote will make a lot of men happy. It will make them feel secure and reinforce their sense of self-worth. Like in grade one when we boys ganged up and defended the jungle gym from the girls…
Strangest of all to me is that some men will feel that the work of Christ on earth has been furthered by women being denied ordination??? It’s really weird!
I am glad our Union (PUC) and the CUC will not be affected by this vote either way. There is already peace of mind in these two territories. Women have been ordained, they are doing a great job. And most men are doing mentally well so far…
Therefore, In my opinion, it’s all in the hands of the Unions as the bylaws stipulate. If the GC votes NO (most probably), then I guess other Unions interested in eliminating discrimination of women from their territories have to look at PUC and CUC and follow suit.
I am very curious to see what will happen in Europe, since they usually think more independently from the GC’s edicts.
I think you may be being a big harsh with the ‘classic Doug’ statement. I think it is an example of a preacher momentarily taking his eyes off Jesus and letting his opinions and political views motivate an ill-considered sermon.
‘Classic Doug’ is when he preaches Christ centered sermons, many of which I have been greatly blessed by.
This and the 'State of Disgrace’sermon were clangers though, i’ll give you that!
Doug. Used an ancient Hebrew, Greek, Roman paradigm to denigrate a 21st century reality. Note what institutional heights it brought him. Certainly not a Martin Luther of courage. I find a woman’s speaking voice somewhat distracting, and a woman’s street dress also distracting. I think that modest ecclesiastical grab to be preferred. Never the less, the women pastors I have listened to have had a message of Grace equal to or superior to most males of similar education,training, and experience. Worship is directed to God. Let a Godly person lead in that worship. Gender is irrelevant. Let us remember Eve was deceived, Adam was deliberate. It is Adam’s sin that brought sin upon us all. Read Romans 5. Tom Z
Doug used to be carried on an early morning Augusta TV channel. I would listen to him as often as possible. I found him full of himself. smug, and condescending with a captured audience. I watched because I wanted to be sure, I hadn’t overlooked any positive aspect of Adventism. There is something about a T V camera that brings out a self aggrandizing profile The peacock is a perfect symbol of cameraitis.I have no idea of his relationship to his God but his projection to his viewers is egotistical. He is the very model of a contemporary TV personality. Tom Z