This sounds like the hundreds of “Sabbath-keeping rules” the very religious administrators had ordered during Jesus’s time to be kept for being “perfect.”
Is there a Chick-fil-A place in your part of the country?
There is one in Kalispell, but not Missoula yet. I’m a fan.
Not real close, Moscow. I used to go for the food, now I go because it’s politically incorrect
Yes…we need to buck the PC police!
But…you would drink it anyway, right?
Preach on, Brother Frank! As a US president was known to have said, “Bring it on…” We will overcome any sin. We are a chosen people.
“Fifty Shades” of grandeur?
1st post cincerity-Let us say that this premise is true…however, none of you LGTarians can produce one single contemporary example of a “perfected” Christian. I call it false spiritual “advertising”.
2nd post cincerity-BTW…the “BOLD” statement still stands. None of you can produce what you claim is possible here on this earth (Perfection).
7thdayissabbath-cincerity, I am agreeing with you when you say “no LGTarians can produce an example of a “perfected” Christian”.
The only example that can be shown is what is in the Holy Bible…Moses/Enoch ect…
I nor anyone else can show you a “perfect” person, only God can read the heart, asking someone who believes the words written in the Bible and SOP (not mans thoughts/ideas and words) which says that we should never say “we are saved” to show you a “modern day perfect” person is an unreasonable request and can not be answered.
Enlighten me and tell me where the “saints” that are listed come from? I have never read about these in any Bible…Are they saints because God said they were or did the RCC (pope) say they were saints?
kade-I don’t know about the LGT people, but I can name some contemporary perfected Christians if you want to learn more about them:
Saint John the Wonder-worker
Saint Raphael of Brooklyn
Saint Elizabeth the New Martyr
Saints Innocent and Herman of Alaska
Saint Ignatius (Brianchaninov)
Saint John of Kronstadt
Saint Theophan the Recluse
Please do not take my response as criticism of you, you are my brethren and I really do care about you…I will pray that you can see the truth through all the deception that Satan has muddied up the church with.
In light of this discussion… I think it is important to deal with the following text…
II Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
What does “all should come to repentance” mean?
Well, naturally you didn’t read about them in the Bible, they are all modern saints that lived in the past 100 or so years. God’s power to perfect those who partner with Him in the effort didn’t stop at the end of the Biblical era. In the words of St. Athanasius, “God became man that man might become God.”
As to where they come from, Raphael of Brooklyn was born in Syria, but spent most of his ministry in New York. John the Wonder-worker was born in Ukraine, but served God in Shanghai, Paris, Brussels, and San Francisco. Elizabeth the New-Martyr was born in Germany, and lived and was martyred in Russia. If you wish to go further down the list, all are easily located via google.
To the best of my knowledge, none of the listed saints are venerated in the Roman church.
"I nor anyone else can show you a “perfect” person, only God can read the heart, asking someone who believes the words written in the Bible and SOP (not mans thoughts/ideas and words) which says that we should never say “we are saved” to show you a “modern day perfect” person is an unreasonable request and can not be answered."
This is such a nonsensical issue…why teach that it is essential that there needs to be a “perfected” generation in order for the Lord to come (no need to answer this because I have heard all the answers before)? If you are agreeing that “no one knows”…then it should not matter. But to LGTarians- it does. This belief system is more akin to Eastern thought and religion with its emphasis on individual efforts to reach Godly “perfection”. It is also akin to the concept of the oft maligned RC in the quest to “work one’s way into heaven”.
"Please do not take my response as criticism of you, you are my brethren and I really do care about you…I will pray that you can see the truth through all the deception that Satan has muddied up the church with."
I also pray that you are able to spiritually grow inspite of the fallacious belief system of Last Generation Theology. Please don’t take what I have said as a criticism because I really do care about your spiritual health.
You will find that some on this site (of a particular extremely conservative SDA persuasion) don’t always take the time to get to know whether or not with whom they are engaging in conversation are actually SDA. Many of them don’t have a particularly broad religious education and sometimes ask questions that they could easily look up themselves. One of my fav quotes is: “You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.” Zealousness does NOT always equal righteousness…just ask the Martyrs.
BTW…our friend cannot definitively say that the names on your list are not “saints” since we don’t know if they were or not (only God reads hearts).
I have a friend that converted a year ago and said the same thing about learning early Christian church history of that time period. I think that it was the pull of the early history and traditions of the Orthodox church that drew him to it.
At least “50 Shades”…I would say much, much more. lol
And yet…Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath”. Children need many rules but adults should need far less. A matter of maturity.
Moses is never identified as perfect. He was kept out of the promised land because of his outburst of anger. He was resurrected as Satan quibbled over his body, according to the NT. That points to his resurrection as a sheer act of grace, not to his personal perfection.
Enoch was taken. He walked with God. The scriptures never talk about his sinless perfection. Noah got drunk after the flood, and one of his sons dishonored him. They weren’t saved in the boat because of sinless perfection. Rather, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God. Grace and faith are more central to these narratives than some idea of absolute sinlessness.
Whether you, EGW, or anyone else reads sinless perfection into these texts would be just that… reading it into the text. Creative eisegesis instead of real exegesis. Read what’s there, not what’s not.
Dwayne…why do you find this text relevant to the discussion?
It is alleged, in this discussion, that overcoming all sin is not consistent with scripture and is a part of the errors of LGT. First of all… I don’t who coined the title/phrase ‘Last Generation Theology’ and don’t know how it has become part of an unspecified “group” or “teaching”. However, I do know that, on the question of overcoming all sin before Christ comes again, this text is highly specific and germane to answering this question. The phrase “All should come to repentance”… is unmistakably and deeply embedded in a chapter strikingly discussing the second coming of Christ and contains language (as previously stated) that points out why Christ has not come and “seems” to have delayed His coming. My question relating to the phrase “all should come to repentance” is this… what does “come to repentance mean”? If one has “come to repentance” … what state is he/she in spiritually?
Metanoia in the Greek literally means a change of mind. It means that a person has a change of mind and orientation of life and worship. According to the text, God is waiting for all to come to repentance, meaning that he is looking for people to turn to him in Christ, and away from life lived without him.
People who do this are not sinlessly perfect. The dying thief wasn’t, the Philippian jailer wasn’t, the Ethiopian eunuch wasn’t, Cornelius wasn’t, etc. They all are examples of coming to repentance. They belonged to Jesus by faith, by joining up with him. He can be trusted to save on this basis.
Continual growth into Christ’s image, continual change and maturity grow out of the fertile ground of this type of faith, assurance, and acceptance.
" If one has “come to repentance” … what state is he/she in spiritually?"
I would venture that this is known only to God…could be very different from person to person.
Last Generation Theology…does it matter where the term comes from or who coined it? If it walks like a duck…quacks like a duck…it still must be a duck.
You are not out of the woods yet. Although Chocolate is not mentioned, EGW informed us that “hot drinks are debilitating.” You could drink your chocolate warm, but it is not a good idea to drink either hot or cold, so you don’t violate the laws of health. This is an important reason not to frequent Starbuck–the drinks are either too hot or too cold. Shame. Warm or cool food and drink is the best!
“Food should not be eaten very hot or very cold. If food is cold, the vital force of the stomach is drawn upon in order to warm it before digestion can take place. Cold drinks are injurious for the same reason; while the free use of hot drinks is debilitating.” MH 305