Exploring Identity Negotiation in Adventist-raised Gays and Lesbians in Norway

I don’t know if you were in Loma Linda area back in 1982. My aunt lived in Colton and worked at Loma Linda University Hospital until she retired in 1984. I stayed with her when I flew down to meet with Colin Cook in 1978, and also in 1982 when I went to a conversion therapy psychologist for several intense sessions at Glendale Adventist Hospital. That’s when I thought I was cured of my homosexuality and got married 6 months later.

The best these quacks can do is behavior modification. My attractions for men never changed. I drug around a cross of internal shame for a sexual orientation that for me was as natural as a straight persons attractions for the opposite sex.

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George and Elmer know all about the dysfunctional problems that arise
when someone has to deny who they are. As you know, they are not
“pretty”.
I have heard a number of them from Kinship members prior to their
finding Kinship and finding freedom in being who they are.
So much of denying and accepting is attached to Salvation issues
according the SDA church anyway. For many this amounts to a life time
of terror. For some, the Terror is too much to handle, with only way to
stop it – suicide. Then life long grief for the family.

At least for the last decade Kinship has had “training” sessions in the
European areas with pastors. Discussing what it means to not be
heterosexual. From the presenters I heard the pastors were receptive
to consider what was presented.

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You are truly wise in your own eyes. Atheism is a religion. Your god has also been around since earths creation. He still inspires many today with his lies.

Do you also want to have the Rabbi interpret reasons for divorce?

Maybe ask him his interpretation of who the book of Isaiah mentions as the faithful Servant who would come to make the way straight.

Time is short and Jesus will soon come.
2timothy 4:3
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

I don’t know if Ellen white plagiarized, but if they were plagiarized I am thankful that people are still finding truth and God through the “Plagiarized”writings.

I will tell you that those that read her books are more likely to have a love for God and His Word.

Those that make fun of her often have a hard time staying awake when they read God’s word.

When they have discussions they always quote themselves or the opinions of others to back their spiritual arguments.

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I assume you are a Christian.

Are you offering biblical advice?
Just keep being yourself?
Which verse were you inspired to reference?

Did you offer Cain the same advice before he made his offering?

There is a way that seems wonderfu/right to a man but ends with his spiritual destruction.

The heart is deceitfully wicked.

Lean not unto your own understanding.

Just a few biblical verses.

I am curious if this article seeks to convert Satan or God to its primary objective and conclusion.

Is Satan happy or offended with this article?

Or does the author suppose that God and Satan are in agreement.

No scripture or thus says the Lord to support the view despite the authors theology background.

Heavily weighted on how one feels,felt,acceptance by others or response of the aforementioned.

This article approaches a challenging spiritual problem through the diagnosis and prognosis of the world’s progressive interpretation of sin.

The Bible classifies “bad habits” or innate predispositions that fall short of the standard of God, not as flaws or “my identity” but as the sinful nature.

Biblically those that commit wickedness, oppressors, commit homosexuality,Fornicators, liars, those that divorce their spouses without biblical cause are sinning.

The Bible is clear.

However those that sincerely repent from these sins with a sincere heart allowing the Spirit to wage war with the flesh will be saved.
Not loving the sun they commit but detesting it will be saved even though they might fall from time to time.

The problem with the worlds solution for sin is that it hardens the heart thus making it impossible for true repentance as their sin is longer viewed as worthy of remorse and repentance.

Thus it will be the sinner not grasping the available grace because of their hardened heart.

When sin in one’s life is no longer viewed as needing repentance, Satan has accomplished his work.

Maybe if we had not allowed divorce, racism, sexism, oppression to have been downplayed in our churches by misquoting God’s word, our ability to identify and address sin would be through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not through the world’s principles.

It is a fearful thing when God “ gives in “ and permits a man or woman to go their way.

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Jhn316

The evidence is so overwhelming that EGW’s plagiarism was prolific that no one currently can be assured that any phrase / paragraph / passage / page is authentically hers or that it is borrowed / stolen / purloined / plagiarized.

Even written segments where she assures her readers that “ I was shown “ and that God had told her, turned out to be borrowed material from contemporary other writers.

God certainly chose a most circuitous routing to give her his information—- channeling it through other authors of her day.

The most troubling aspect of all, is that both she and her family were vociferous and vehement in denying that she ever copied — despite the overwhelming evidence.

So the cover up was worse than the crime.

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Jhn316

You seem to have missed the entire point of the piece and seem to be woefully unaware of some significant statistical / demographic facts :

Four to five per cent of the planet’s population is born gay / lesbian and this demographic holds true over every race, class, ethnic group and tribe.

This means that one in twenty five persons on the planet is gay / lesbian, so every extended family of twenty or twenty five persons probably has a gay / .lesbian family member.

This means that Christian families, Jewish families, Islamic families,
Atheist families, Hindu families, Buddhist families all have gay members.

Furthermore every psychological / psychiatric / medical group is in unanimous agreement that these gay / lesbian individuals have made zero conscious choice, nor had personal input in being born gay

Just as heterosexuals have zero personal input in choosing their sexual orientation.

What was exceedingly troubling about the research in this article, is that these gay CHILDREN were being renounced and rejected by their families while still pubertal, and prepubertal, that is BEFORE they had a sexual experience ——-while they were yet VIRGINS and before any sexual act.

So they were being persecuted / punished / demeaned / denigrated / discriminated / denounced over an orientation that they had not chosen nor wanted.

You yourself talk about “ sin “ in a pejorative way when referring to this problem —- how can virginal children / teenagers be “ sinners “ in this regard when their sexual orientation is unchosen by them ??

Their personal anguish / alarm / agony over their predicament is evident in their statements;

“I prayed that God would kill me so that I would not be gay “

Please read the article again, to see their repeated statements of despair, desperation, depression and discomfort.

Regrettably it is the children in Christian families who suffer this horror of rejection and persecution while still pubertal, and before any sexual act…

Gay children of Atheist / Secular families, Buddhist families, Hindu families
are not treated with such shabby shaming and shunning.

My desire for you is that should you have a gay / lesbian child / cousin / niece / nephew / grandchild that you love them, respect them and not abuse them.

It is UNCONSCIONABLE how Adventist families, congregations and schools have treated their gay offspring…

A gay child growing up Atheist, is in a better situation regrettably, that those gay kids in a rejecting , renouncing, unloving Adventist family.

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Not really, because I am not an accuser of the brethren… :wink:

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I thought Spectrum was a forum for Christian biblical counsel.
Don’t lose the relevance of repentance in the love equation.

Love is not the same as reassurance or acceptance of behavior.
Christ says if you love me keep my commandments.
Don’t think that you can be more loving than God.

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Is that your opinion or God’s?
Does atheism lead one to repentance?
Does atheism lead to salvation?

Isaiah 5:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

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Jhn316-
you missed seeing the statistics.
5 out of 100 births have a chance of being gay/lesbian. This goes
for Adventist parents also.
Another statistic I have seen is that the 3rd BOY born to a woman
has a large chance of being gay due to antibodies in the mother’s
body from the other 2 BOY children.
The SDA church calls these Children CURSED, Out of Compliance
with God’s Will, wrongly Baptized and members of God’s Remnant
Church. And encourages the parents to view them the same.
And the child who grows into an adult is under the TERROR of
Fire and Brimstone for the rest of their life.

Robin was saying parents of gay/lesbian child/children who are Atheist/
Secular, or from Buddhist or Hindu religion are not treated this way.
They are accepted and loved as who they are.

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Perhaps you are misinformed about Spectrum’s role and mission in independent journalism, reporting, and publisher of research. This part of Spectrum is for open discussion through conversation.

You are welcome here. But it is not a counseling site.

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Jhn316

Again you entirely missed the point.of my statement.

Maybe you do not belong on this site. If you cannot understanding simple meanings.

The point I made about gay kids in Atheist families, is that these secular families are not programmed to reject and renounce the gay kid —- the child is surrounded by a loving, supportive , emotionally enriching environment, in which he / she can mature into a whole person.

Adolescents need self esteem, self worth and self affirmation in order to grow to maturity…

Why is it so dificult for you to understand that a gay child who is belittled, demeaned, denounced and feels unloved can grow up into a damaged human being with lots of “ baggage “ .?

Regrettably this is what many SDA families inflict on their gay offspring.

Hopefully you are not yourself inflicting this damaging influence on any close members of your family who are gay / lesbian.

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It is not anything of the sort, but this might explain your posts, which IMO come on really strong.

If you dial it back a notch or two you might get people to consider your positions.

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What was actually your intention when you posted this verse? Can you please clarify?

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Not sure about Steve, but yes, I think that would be wonderful.

Yes, I have said for many years that if you want to know what the Jewish Scripture means, the best source is a Jewish scholar.

That’s what Paul wrote more than 2000 years ago. He was wrong. Why do you think you’re right? How do you treat Jesus words, where he says we don’t know? Says that even he doesn’t know:

[Regarding when the Son of Man will return] “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.” - Mark 13.

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Jesus said:
Matthew 19:
7 “Why then,” they [some Pharisees] asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word [regarding wives and divorce], but only those to whom it has been given [so, it has not been given to everyone]. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”


Jesus understood that there are men who are not good for marriage, collectively refereed to them as eunuchs, and explicitely put them in three categories, which we should not ignore:

  • eunuchs who were born that way [???]
  • eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others [castration]
  • those who choose to live like eunuchs [who do not marry - like a modern priest]

Many scholars think that those that were born that way does not refer to some sort of genetic defect because bible writers would not have known about such things. Instead, this refers to men who have no interest in women.

For one opinion see…

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