Fourteen Million and Counting

(Kim Green) #21

"Reading quotations from the book Christian Service , he said that it is important to get members involved, to put them to work, noting that work is the one genuine cure for spiritual laziness."

Really? “Work” is the one genuine “cure” for spiritual “laziness”??

By Ted W’s definition, this “laziness” could only come from the individuals themselves…it could NEVER be that the SDA church is not offering enough spiritual food and inspiration. Amazing that the onus is placed solely upon the individual members and never the Leadership such as himself.

"Let’s love people…let’s be proactive…let’s put people to work."
So…if we “love” people…we will put them to “work”? There really are no words for how very strange this is…such self-serving statements.

(Steve Mga) #22

Is it “the church”?
or Is it relationship between me and God?

HOW does “work” solve the inner needs of the Soul?

(Kim Green) #23

Steve…it doesn’t. These types of statements come straight out of Dictator’s handbooks through the centuries. It also comes from believing in “works” over “grace”. It should be abundantly clear by now to even the most dull that TW truly believes in a theology where one “works” their way into Heaven.

(George Tichy) #24

I am making it clear right now, it’s my pledge:

If at any time the GC creates a stupid compliance document to be signed by members, I am not signing it. Ever!

(Kim Green) #25

As long as money holds those “Dire Consequences” at bay…there shall be no creation of “Compliance Documents”. Certain earthly realities at work.

(Cfowler) #26

So true, Kim. Words fail. And, of course, more quotes from EGW. :scream:

(credere) #27

Sadly, there are a lot of strange comments recorded here from The Nurture and Retention Summit but the most detached must be President Ted N.C. Wilson’s “…noting that work is the one genuine cure for spiritual laziness……”

Given these sentiments, I thought that he might find Bertolt Brecht’s poem The Solution (with paraphrasing as fits) reassuring.

After the uprising of June 17th
The Secretary of the Authors’ Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Which said that the people
Had forfeited the government’s confidence
And could only win it back
By redoubled labour. Wouldn’t it
Be simpler in that case if the government
Dissolved the people and
Elected another?

(Sirje) #28

Good way of stating the issue.

The SDA message is - not the Gospel of Christ. The message is about itself. The SDA definition of GOSPEL is it’s history and all of the 28 (and counting) points of doctrine.

When true spirituality is missing, rules and doctrines come in as a source security. The concept that love is the identifying mark of a Christian is met with suspicion. It’s not concrete enough - it has to be able to be quantitatively assessed - as in, what have you DONE… .

The reason why Wilson’s comment resonates in the SDA psyche is because the intangibility of love - “By this they will know you are mine, that you love one another.” It’s not enough, it says. “You can’t drift into heaven” the man said. You must work your way into heaven is what he’s saying. And what does that work consist of … getting more people to join the church. There is no other goal. “Come join us so you can go out and bring more people in.” The question is IN TO WHAT?

If you keep people busy “gathering in the sheaves”, they don’t have time to think or evaluate.

(Thomas J Zwemer) #29

First off the numbers are inflated if local evangelism is any indicator. A evangelist would breeze into town. With a power point full of beasts and scare the pants off 25 percent of the crowd. he would hook 10-12 percent.dunk them get their names on the Church books and leave town. By the time he got the tent up in the next town half of the dunkees were long gone. One can stay scared for only so long…One can stay in love for a life time.


Pretty much says it all. Apparently this was a meeting of disconnected ‘visiting dignitaries’ for disconnected ‘dignitaries’. Business as usual. There are career ‘corporate’ Adventists who think they get paid to do all of the planning for those who have to make their living out in the world… and then there are those millions of other Adventists just coping with life among non-Adventists all week, where our plans don’t matter either, especially our Sabbath plans.

Two disconnected SDA classes. One on the front line, unpaid by tithe. The other with a lifetime career, paid by tithe, until Jesus comes. Where is the incentive ?

(George Tichy) #31

I wonder if when he said “people” he meant “men only.” Because if he included women I would ask, why does he persist in blocking women from getting involved in the work by being ministers? Does he think that women are so lazy that they cannot participate in “the work?”

Hypocrisy is a terrible disease. I am not sure it is actually curable.
Elmer @elmer_cupino, is there any magic pill for that?.. :innocent:

(George Tichy) #32

Retention problem? Their problem may well be “incontinence”… :wink: :laughing:

(George Tichy) #33

Traditionally, much more time is spent focusing on the “remnant church” and its magnificence than on the Gospel and its salvific force.

(Thomas J Zwemer) #34

The real question is where did they go?

(Kim Green) #35

Thanks for posting…this came to my mind. I am glad that you commented- very socialistic of TW.

(Kim Green) #36

Where there aren’t enough words from the Bible…there’s always EGW. :grinning:

(Kim Green) #37

I understand your point, Tom…but, unfortunately, it IS possible to keep the masses under control by fear for generations.


Adventist women are soooo lazy:

–They work extra jobs to put their children in private Adventist schools
–They organize the potlucks, receptions, social events, showers, funeral meals
–They sing, accompany, direct, play instruments, plan
–They create masses of decorations and programs for children’s Sabbath Schools
–They teach seminars, cooking schools, Sabbath School classes for adults and all ages
–They “man” the church office, serve as clerk, make costumes, plan and attend women’s ministries events, mentoring teens, providing child care during the week for working moms
–In many churches, women serve on boards, strategic planning, as communicators, conference executive committees, in community services: they feed and cloth their poor, run thrift stores
–on and on and on

Would someone tell these women that if they redouble their efforts and work harder, the “backsliders” might return?

(credere) #39

Thanks Kim. Imagine the irony of a Nurture and Retention Summit identifying the members as the problem and the suggestion that work would cure their spiritual laziness (if they only redoubled their efforts).

(Kim Green) #40

So well put! After all, we already know that TW and cronies already believe that it is member’s efforts that either usher in the Second Coming…or not. :wink: