From Confession to Consolation: Confession and New Historic “Now”

Daniel’s prophetic message in Daniel 9 is one of the greatest prophecies in the Bible. It is labeled as “the divine program for the ages.”[1] Glorious victory of the Messiah over Antichrist’s “abomination” and all kinds of satanic deceptions in history has already been accomplished through Christ’s atoning death, resurrection, ascension, ministry in the Sanctuary, and the promise of the blessed hope of His second coming. 

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at
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[quote=“spectrumbot, post:1, topic:19829”]
"The revelation about the Messiah and the timing of His salvific program…"

If no one can decode the timing in advance, or even agree after the fact, it is NOT a revelation at all, is it?

We took an OT announcement of a military defeat repeated in Revelation (Babylon is fallen) and morphed it into a church that’s fallen spiritually. Is that exegesis or imagination?


Perhaps you do not agree with the fact that Jesus came on schedule as foretold in Daniel 9, but there are many who do. I have studied the prophecy and see Jesus in Daniel 9.

Some people use that argument to take the truth out of the prophecy that stands as a pillar in history.

But as a student of Bible prophecy, I affirm that Jesus IS the Messiah prophesied in Daniel 9 when it was first filled. And in the endtime when the decree to rebuild Jerusalem was repeated on 31 May 1998, the same prophecy counted down to the very Day (20 January 2001) that President George Bush II was inaugurated the Protestant Prince of America’s Constitution. He failed on 9/11/01. And he took away Christ’s Sacrifice and Oblation on 20 September 2001 on the very day prophesied exactly in the midst of Constitution Week. And 1290 days later, the one who was to continue was taken away (2 April 2005, Pope John Paul II died).

But if you cannot see the prophecy fulfilled in Christ’s life, you surely won’t be able to fathom that it was repeated in the endtime as it relates to the Prince of America’s Constitution.

Christian regards,
His child henry

There are serious questions on the linguistic-historical level whether Daniel 9 predicted the coming of Christ at all. For one, our interpretation of Daniel 9 builds heavily on the text of the KJV which is tendentious. It capitalizes “Messiah, the Prince” when no definite article was present and also joins “seven weeks and sixty weeks” as one 69-week period, ignoring an accusative of duration before “and for sixty two weeks” which in turn predicts the coming of two anointed ones, one after 7 weeks (9:25) and one who is cut off after 62 weeks (9:26). Several modern Bible translations correct the KJV’s errors such as the New Revised Standard Version and the New Jewish Publication Society translations.

I deal with some of these issues in this brief essay:


“Babylon is Fallen!”
Question: is this discussing a Religious group? OR
Is this Empire falling? [the devil’s empire]
Much of Revelation is comparing struggle between
Empire and God’s Kingdom that was invading the
earth once again.

Actually, God -vs- Empire is the theme of Daniel.


Steve, do you remember The Bible Code?

That’s the name of a book by Michael Drosnin in which he claims that there is a code embedded in the Bible by Abraham’s god.
That’s not a bad title, but the name of the game seems to be “Bend to Fit”. The code is revealed by searching for equidistant letter sequences (ELS). He had an algorythm that found wonderful messages in the Bible.
But the process lost its luster when a mathematician used the ELS routine and found the following words in impressive positioning in the Bible:
“The Bible Code is a silly, dumb, fake, false, evil, nasty, dismal fraud and snake-oil hoax.”
Of course if he wanted to, he could have found all the complementary words he wanted instead.

Humans get into enough arguments over plain-language portions of the Bible. Would God make the Bible even tougher to understand? :worried:


William Miller and the SDA’s pioneers based their interpretation and projections on the KJV which has been shown to be a translation along with interpretation. Dr. Reis correctly shows a much different scenario about events in Daniel 9 than the tradition explanation by the SDA Church. If the NIV had been available in the 1840’s my guess is that the church would look a lot different today! The article by Dr. Santrac seems to assume the KJV as the basis for his thoughts.


She gave him virtual omnipresence, didn’t she?

She didn’t know that Isaiah 14 wasn’t about Satan. J N Andrews revealed that she got the story about the staff meeting in heaven that embarrassed Satan into quitting, from a fictional epic poem by John Milton. Are we to believe that we’re going to change the Satan script to line up with all the facts we didn’t have in the good ol’ days of “Sister White says”?


Folks who are truly interested in understanding Daniel 9 might be well served to read it in the RSV. The KJV mistranslates a number of Hebrew words, which distorts the meaning of the text. .


At the very least, it’s accurate.

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This makes little sense to me. It doesn’t even hang together as a sentence. Did you forget a word or two?

I doubt anyone can fathom what you’re writing about.


Typo fixed thanks for bringing it to my attention:
But as a student of Bible prophecy, I affirm that Jesus IS the Messiah prophesied in Daniel 9 when it was first filled.

do not give up on yourself.

Christian Regards
His child henry

Again, this makes no sense.

What is that supposed to mean?

I’ve often asked why did God not give writ in an enduring, perfect, unchanging language, written by his own hand?

And since he didn’t why do we read it as if we believe he did? Isn’t it more likely an invitation to discussion, reason, comparison-mining, as it were, for the hidden truth?


Perhaps you will be able to understand Ellen White’s explanation better?

The burden of Christ’s preaching was, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent ye, and believe the gospel.” Thus the gospel message, as given by the Saviour Himself, was based on the prophecies. The “time” which He declared to be fulfilled was the period made known by the angel Gabriel to Daniel. “Seventy weeks,” said the angel, “are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.” Daniel 9:24. A day in prophecy stands for a year. See Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6. The seventy weeks, or four hundred and ninety days, represent four hundred and ninety years. A starting point for this period is given: “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks,” sixty-nine weeks, or four hundred and eighty-three years. Daniel 9:25. The commandment to restore and build Jerusalem, as completed by the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus (see Ezra 6:14; 7:1, 9, margin), went into effect in the autumn of B. C. 457. From this time four hundred and eighty-three years extend to the autumn of A. D. 27. According to the prophecy, this period was to reach to the Messiah, the Anointed One. In A. D. 27, Jesus at His baptism received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and soon afterward began His ministry. Then the message was proclaimed. “The time is fulfilled.” {DA 233.1}

Daniel 9 predicted that Jesus would be anointed the Messiah at a specific time in history and He was.

Ellen also states:

The light that Daniel received direct from God was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon have come to pass. {CTr 335.4}

In Daniel 9:24 Daniel was told by Gabriel to “consider the vision” and Gabriel began to explain it to him. The vision in question was one that Daniel had seen earlier by the river Ulai. That means that Ellen said Daniel 9 was fulfilled in Christ’s day in AD 27 and she is saying that the visions that he saw by the Ulai “are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon have come to pass.” Since it was fulfilled in AD 27 and ALL THE EVENTS FORETOLD WILL SOON HAVE COME TO PASS, it is clear that Ellen White is saying that the prophecy fulfilled in AD 27about anointing Jesus as the Messiah (prince) will be fulfilled a second time when someone else is anointed as a prince.

Daniel 9 was fulfilled the second time in our day. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem was issued 31 May 1998 and the endtime event revealed in that study of Daniel 9 ended on 20 January 2001, the very day that George Bush II was inaugurated President of America. That made GW America’s Counterfeit Protestant Prince of the Covenant/Constitution. Thus, Christ’s title “Prince of the Covenant” is counterfeited by America’s Presidents beginning with Bush II. Thus Daniel identifies America’s presidents beginning with Bush II as being princes.

In Revelation 13 the prophecy begins with the papal beast that has 7 heads after its deadly wound is healed in 1929. They were Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I & II, and Benedict XVI. Benedict’s resignation ended the 7th head/solo pope’s reign of the first beast. The prophecy in Revelation 13 moved to the next beast from the earth that has duo horns. The word duo commonly means 2. But in Luke 10:1 it is translated 2 and 2. In Revelation 13 duo occurs twice and the endtime meaning (aligning with prophetic fulfillment after 1844) is 2 and 2. Thus, horns depict kings as per Daniel 8:20-22 and the earth beast has duo horns which depicts 2 & 2 American Presidents that Daniel calls PRINCES: Bush II & Obama and Trump & Pence. Thus, when Daniel 12:1 says Prince Michael shall stand for his people know this:

Jesus as Prince Michael stood for His people to confess them before God in 1844.

The Lord has shown me in vision, that Jesus rose up, and shut the door, and entered the Holy of Holies, at the 7th month 1844; but Michael’s standing up (Daniel 12:1) to deliver his people, is in the future. {WLF 12.4}

I saw that the anger of the nations, the wrath of God, and the time to judge the dead were separate and distinct, one following the other, also that Michael had not stood up, and that the time of trouble, such as never was, had not yet commenced. The nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished His work in the sanctuary, He will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out. {EW 36.1}

"The commencement of that time of trouble," here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the “latter rain,” or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out. {EW 85.3}

When Prince Michael Pence stands for his people there is a Time of Trouble. Then comes the Mark of the Beast. Then comes the Latter Rain. Then Prince Michael (Jesus) stands and “It is done” probation closes, the Time of Trouble morphs into the 7 last plagues, and Jesus Comes in the clouds of heaven.

When Daniel was praying about this in chapter 9 he repeatedly stated " to us [belongeth] confusion of face" which is to repeatedly say…we do not understand! And we will not understand prophecy on our own hook. God gives understanding to those who seek it from Him. And unless He gives it, there will be no understanding.

“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him” (James 1:5).

Henry, as an observer, it seems to me that you move from the “what” of the gospel as though you have a monopoly on understanding, inject it with your own interpretation of the “how” and “when” and then give every impression of regarding others as cynics and infidels because they do not have the same interpretation.

Im wondering how it is that you can be so certain, and why you are the one and only individual to have reached such conclusions?

Do you really see yourself as a latter day Noah? Why are you so focused on a timeline, when we’re admonished to focus on Christ?

Why fill your days with conjecture when they could be spent doing as Jesus did, caring for those around him and sharing the good news?

Today might be the last day for me, or you, or the people around us. Why not make that the reason to lift up Christ and share the reality of salvation, rather than speculate about bits of a jigsaw puzzle that will only ever be seen in fullness when history ends?

Kind regards


Just conjecturing here (and not because i think you need my help decoding this) but to me it seems this often means that though the writer considers you reprobate, he does so with a lifeline, er, snare, replete with poorly veiled smarmy snark and a snide of oleaginous smuggery. But, I could be mistaken…


Ne better. She makes little sense to me. Less as time passes.

I appreciated the thoughts in this article. The more highly I think of myself, I have found, is when I am usually pretty low. On the other hand, the more I see myself through the eyes of God the higher I am.

Pride in myself, my thinking, my church, whatever, just shows how far from God I really am!

Ideally, the way it should work is that the Bible and Ellen White are supposed to be more meaningful to us as time goes on. Especially now that the Little Time of Trouble has begun or is in the process of beginning. This is when we need them most to guide us safe to the heavenly harbor.
Christian regards,
His child henry