General Conference Answers Questions Regarding Its Leadership


(C.B.S.) #42

Your comment is public, but it’s FAKE NEWS!


(George Tichy) #43

It looks like, uh Steve? It caught my attention as well. Suddenly trying to redirect people’s attention from the real thing - the GC’s attempt to grab the Unions’ authority by “expanding it” to the Divisions, aka the very GC!!!.
Good try, but their are being caught again.

When they say “regions of the world” it appears to be a very well calculated attempt to take the readers’ minds as far as possible from the GC, to the remote world instead.

And we are all bozos, right? (Or “fools” as @ajshep called us). Well, we certainly have a bridge to sell…


(C.B.S.) #44

A simple copy of the Roman Curia, but 2nd class!


(George Tichy) #45

You must be sarcastic saying this, right?
Jeremy, how can you defend any “saving faces” in a case like this? I can’t believe you are serious. Are you trying to exonerate the GC people from being responsible for their actions?


(C.B.S.) #46

Amen!
And finally give up the stubborn anti-Catholic hate in our church. Catch the Spirit!


(George Tichy) #47

Yes, but it is way too late for them to speak out. They had their chance for a long time, to even resign in favor of their conscience and denounce the plot publicly. They never did. Now, they too… have to “comply”…

Can you imagine, just for a moment, what the situation would be like without Spectrum and Adventist Today (@lorenseibold) reporting on the whole drama? There would NEVER be any answers to “Questions Regarding Leadership!” Never!


(George Tichy) #48

This document is a double down attempt to masquerade the real scenario, to pass on the impression TO THE WORLD CHURCH that whatever is going on is a legit effort to unite the Church. How do they dare???


(David R Larson) #49

The Allies forced Germany to grovel and languish after WWI and this contributed to WWII. They took a somewhat different approach after WWII with better results. Preserving the dignity of those one defeats is prudent and right. I guess this is one way of saying that giving people a chance to “save face” is often, albeit not always, a good idea.


(jeremy) #50

tobias, where is this taken from…

i’m asking because according to GC Working Policy 2014-2015, section B 05, entitled “Organizational and Operational Principles of Seventh-day Adventist Church Structure”, pp.52-53, we read:

“6. Different elements of organizational authority and responsibility are distributed among the various levels of denominational organization. For example, the decision as to who may/may not be a member of a local Seventh-day Adventist Church is entrusted to the members of the local church concerned; decisions as to the employment of local church pastors is entrusted to the local conference/mission; decisions regarding the ordination of ministers are entrusted to the union conference/mission; and the definition of denominational beliefs is entrusted to the General Conference in session. Thus each level of organization exercises a realm of final authority and responsibility that may have implications for other levels of organization. In a similar manner, each organization is dependent to some extent on the realm of authority exercised by other levels of organization. No church organization or entity assumes responsibility for the liabilities, debts, acts, or omissions of any other church organization simply because of its church affiliation.”

if unions have "final authority and responsibility " in “decisions regarding the ordination of ministers”, and the general conference has “final authority and responsibility” in “the definition of denominational beliefs”, it doesn’t seem as if a GC vote can challenge a union’s decisions on ordination unless we say that ordination is a denominational belief…but ordination isn’t one of our 28 fundamental beliefs…

it seems to me that san antonio 2015, but also indianapolis 1990 and utrecht 1995, were illegitimate because the GC was voting on something outside of its jurisdiction…


(Steve Mga) #51

George –
“Regions of the world”
As we pointed out the document DID NOT say “Divisions”.
Dictionary meaning could be:
Divisions
Unions
Conferences


(jeremy) #52

george, haven’t you been following ohio governor john kasich’s zero-sum game point…you cannot impose a heads-i-win-tails-you-lose formula in a situation where people disagree without enflaming things to the point of ungovernability…this is what trump’s art of the deal formula has been amounting to, which is why the kavanaugh confirmation was so wrong…

we have to assume that ALL participants in our church, including our GC leaders, mean well…if we can find a way in which everybody can win, at least a little, instead of being forced to publicly lose, we’ll avert a crisis…but if we force one side to publicly lose, we risk tearing the structure apart…

it’s this kind of attitude that has exactly no possibility of finding solutions…

i don’t read AToday…but i do agree that without Spectrum, we’d all be lost…


(George Tichy) #53

The only solution for this crisis is to VOTE this GC OUT.

But, how to VOTE if the POTGC is actually chosen by a small group of people, with all kinds of manipulation happening, and then his (never “her”…) name is brought to the plenary session for “confirmation,” not for real voting?

The appearance of a democratic process may be present, but there is no democratic process in this.

By the way, this document from the GC, pretending to answer questions, was clearly not intended for the readers of Spectrum or Adventist Today. This is just a tool aimed at those representatives from the world church who are coming (bearded or not… :roll_eyes: ) to the AC. For those, the message is clear:

“Do not be distracted by those who are criticizing the GC or TW. Everything is in control, we will prevail. We are doing what God wants us to do. Now that we answered all the questions, just stay on our side and you will be protecting the remnant!”

Nothing but an attempt to keep those representatives’ minds captive into the GC chambers. Will it work???


(Tihomir Odorcic) #54

We can see that the GC has hired a PR professional. But it seems the one they hired is one from the many fired ones from the White House. Because you know how it’s working in politics: Deny till they can prove you the otherwise!


(George Tichy) #55

Jeremy,
I surely can see how the creation and imposition of a 5-group compliance task force is NOT forcing one side to publicly lose. :wink:

Look, this is not about meeting the other side half way. There is no such thing as half-dictatorship, or half-discrimination, or being “a little pregnant.”

The authority to make decisions on ordination belongs to the Unions. There is no way to be conciliatory by sharing their authority with the GC (disguised as “Divisions” and now as “other regions of the world”). The GC does not want “part of the authority,” they want the whole authority. Isn’t it obvious yet?


(George Tichy) #56

Are you suggesting that Michael Cohen actually wrote this document?
I wouldn’t be surprised, since he has lots of time now that he is unemployed and can use a few extra bucks… :laughing:


#57

As noted in this thread and others.for years…Spectrum posters, for the most part, seem to be critical of GC leadership. Whatever.

YET. when I am critical of the inept teaching methods/approaches of the denomination, in general, posters seem to take it as a personal offense, as if they are more devoted/loyal to an institution than to the truth.
This is immature conventional, herd mentality, follow the crowd idolatry.

UNITY? Fat chance for insubordinate gainsayers. ROM 10:21


(Tobias Koch) #58

Hi van Dieman,
the qout comes from the document the articel is based on:

This article derives from a larger document that addresses these specific issues in gerader depth. That document is available at https://executivecommittee.adventist.org/newsletter/.

This articel is an interpretation from the GC you will find here:


(Leroy Gillan) #59

Glory! “We are doing what God wants us to do”? Time is nearing the end, the “shaking” is upon us, and it looks like God is using the GC just for that purpose.
“Spectrum critical of GC?” Seems like that is how so many “independent ministries” got started.
Now the kicker: “…the unique last day Christ-centered biblical message lthat has been entrusted to the Seventh-day Adventist Church”.


(Leroy Gillan) #60

“The unique last day Christ-centered biblical message that has been entrusted to the Seventh-day Adventist Church”? What is it? Does anyone still know?


(George Tichy) #61

Mere rhetoric aimed at mesmerizing people about the supreme duty of the GC (The voice of God) to defend the “truth.” Thus, the duty also includes to impose the functioning of the 5-group police task force (compliance…), and to have the authority from the Unions transferred to the GC.
So simple, isn’t it???