General Conference Answers Questions Regarding Its Leadership


(Thomas J Zwemer) #62

Their boiler plate is a sieve. Design a position and then manipulate due process to validate the intended outcome. Then create committees with the designers as ad hox members. Then play the game of point of order. The Church has been losing ground from Mary Kay Silver, Davenport, The White Lie, Glacier View, The 28, Answers to Questions on Doctrine, The Shaking of Adventism, Why Jesus Waits, The purge at Southern etc. The result has been an increasingly dogmatic leadership. Strange every officer has a wife who knows their husbands vulnerabilities. Once to every man and nation comes the moment to decide. It is now Church or Christ not gender or process. I made my choice years ago.


(Elmer Cupino) #63

So sad you only knew of this recently and wish you would have been with us earlier. Your “ignorance” might have emboldened the GC with their misbehavior. With little time left, let us wait and see how the creative the GC can be to resolve this self-inflicted injury without splitting the church.


(Elmer Cupino) #64

As our good friend @kevindpaulson have been know to say frequently “Wrong again,” it is not your critique of inept teaching but your secretive method (Battleship maneuver) of making us guess your points of view which to date has only been known to you and you alone. We’d like you be be the "clergy darling” preacher of Spectrum but you are making it so difficult for us to do so. :sunglasses:


(jeremy) #65

here’s where you’re wrong…the compliance review committees are OPTIONAL, and they’re a two-way street…WO is obviously going to receive an exemption…the only things that have anything to fear are things that are unbiblical or anti-egw…that’s it…

it’s possible that the GC does want jurisdiction in ordination decisions, but i don’t see how that can happen unless unions cave in, which i don’t think they will…

thx for these references…i’ll be looking into them…

i’m thinking it’s the GC’s ignorance, or their assumption that everyone is ignorant, that has emboldened them in their misbehaviour…but your point is well taken: obviously when members are in the dark, things happen that otherwise wouldn’t have happened…but as george was saying, without Spectrum , we’d all still be ignorant…

i don’t believe there’s any kind of deadline…and i don’t believe the church is going to split…it can’t split…maybe there are parts of the church that want to split, but too many salaries and pensions are on the line…the lawsuits stemming from a split would be endless, and very costly…


(Steve Mga) #66

Yes! They have good people over on AToday site.


(Thomas J Zwemer) #67

In the fall of 1934 I transferred from Teddy Roosevelt Public school to EMC grade school.mother of course urged me to be a Christian boy. The first recess several boys in my room gathered around me and acted as friends only to have one kneel behind me while another pushed me over backwards. I came home with a lament. dad said hit him. mother said just turn the other cheek in effect.This went on for several days. final dad dropped me off early on his way to work. The son of a PhD faculty of the college also came early. the school room was not open.we were standing on the porch. He hit me in the stomach. I hit him back. just then the teacher unlocked the door and the kid ran to her and cried Tom hit me… She said, I saw the whole thing, you had it coming. now that I hit I hit the prof’s kid, everyone else was game. I had a very good school year.

The Church now has a bully playing games. Time to bring him up short.


(George Tichy) #68

Are you bipolar Jeremy? Suddenly you are so realistic, reasonable, wise. Then suddenly you make a statements like htis one!

Yeah, I sure can see someone saying, “Hey Ted, please send the KGC to investigate me, I am choosing this OPTION”… Seriously??? :thinking: :roll_eyes:


#69

So many pastors are bullies and don’t even realize it. They “hit” with readily accepted clichés and bible verses taken out of context.


(jeremy) #70

lol…i think the only legitimate objection over the compliance review committee on WO is that the GC doesn’t have jurisdiction on ordination at all…complying with the WO compliance review committee by a union would really be forfeiting its jurisdiction on ordination to the GC, which it shouldn’t be doing…


(Cfowler) #71

Keeping people ignorant is rule #1 in being able to manipulate them.

Keeping people fearful is rule #2.

This has worked for well for a very long time.


(Billman) #72

The GC is listening. And they don’t like what they hear. And they are reacting. The big question remains, are they comprehending? The answer would have to be no,


(Leroy Gillan) #73

As I understand everyone, the Union Conferences ordain and hire ministers. Am I wrong? If so, what is so wrong if the Unions say “sorry GC, we will keep our tithe, ordain our ministers and pay them. We don’t need your help?”


(jeremy) #74

and Spectrum is changing that, which is a good thing…

there probably has been too much daylight between the GC and the rank and file membership, although as i see it, most members aren’t qualified to understand what’s happening, or don’t care…we’ll all be watching AC2018 if it’s live-streamed, but i’m pretty sure most members won’t bother…


(jeremy) #75

not totally…conferences hire ministers, but unions make ordination decisions…

well, that would be congregationalism, which would basically spell the end of our worldwide church…

i think lawsuits would be filed by the GC over the continued use of the seventh-day adventist name without the forwarding of tithe…in the case of PUC, there is also the complication of the GC’s ownership of loma linda…another complication is the fact that at least some members would do a brexit from PUC and send their tithe directly to the GC, instead…


(Cfowler) #76

Agreed, Jeremy.

Most members don’t care! They are just happy to be in the SDA church.

And, yes…Spectrum is helping to bring light to the issues!


(Leroy Gillan) #77

I guess those who do care will just support the independent ministries. a pity. I still think we are in the shaking time.


(Elmer Cupino) #78

We are indeed “in the shaking time” but what we have is a self-Induced and self-inflicted “shaking time” created by our leaders short-sightedness visual hallucinations and delusions of grandeur unlike what is prophecied in the Bible.


(Elmer Cupino) #79

At this time, our GC leaders are not able to comprehend the “grave consequences” initiated by their desire to move the church in lock-step formation until their paychecks are compromised. This can be triggered if and when our current GC leaders are censored by their peers for mismanagement hopefully this AC2018.


(jeremy) #80

we are definitely in the shaking time, no question…i think we’ve been in the shaking time for many yrs, actually…


(Harry Elliott) #81

[quote=“spectrumbot, post:1, topic:16934”]
The context of this passage clearly points to Daniel 7 where a power would intend to change times and laws. The one and only power that makes this claim and matches the prophetic description is the Roman papacy, which exercised both religious and political power throughout its history and especially during the Middle Ages from AD 538-1798.
[/quote

“where a power would intend to change times and laws.”

Don’t we realize yet what a flimsy, subjective criticism that is? We can’t show that they actually changed any times and laws, so we say that some Catholic intended to?

The only group or country that exercised religious and political power is the Catholic Church?! Really?

William Miller invented the claim that the Catholic Church was “established in 538 and abolished in 1798”. Wrong and wrong. (Unfortunately, EGW repeated it in one of the Great Controversy editions,)

In any event, why should we emulate their errors?