General Conference Answers Questions Regarding Its Leadership


(Johnny Carson) #82

By issuing this document now it makes the GC administration is not only showing their insecurity but also appear to be weak and on the defensive, reacting to a perceived threat rather than exercising leadership that could or would have prevented the threat in the first place. It’s a sad commentary on how far and how quickly the denominational leadership has fallen since the days of Jan Paulsen.


(William Noel) #83

By issuing this statement church leaders are demonstrating their complete and total failure to understand what a significant portion of the membership thinks about what they are doing. They should heed the lesson that politicians have known since ancient times: if people don’t think what you’re doing is right then no amount of explanation will change their mind and the longer you keep defending what you’re doing, the stronger the opposition becomes. They’ve stepped deep into the stinky stuff and the only solution is to reverse course and take a humility bath.


(efcee) #84

Wouldn’t an appeal to the “priesthood of all believers” be a plea to discontinue professional ordained pastors rather than a plea to include women as ordained pastors? If women were to be included (and I think they should), there would still be a division between pastors and laity rather than a “priesthood of all believers”.


#85

Such a great question, @efcee

Of course! It’s just that the issue has surfaced when we decide to recognize women as equal in their eligibility to be recipients of Spiritual Gifts from the Holy Spirit, some decide that perhaps we shouldn’t even be ordaining anyone, or that the layering of pastors and laity may be unequal. This has been triggered by the idea that women are equally eligible.

It is the ultimate irony, of course.

It always strikes me that the critics of equal eligibility for affirmation ignore the Priesthood of all Believers as well as the role of the Holy Spirit in gifting individuals for their contributions to spread the Gospel. Nowhere in this response to questions did the General Conference ever acknowledge, answer, respond, or even bring up the equal eligibility of men and women for Holy Spirit giftedness and the role that has in the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus.

Another ultimate irony.


(George Tichy) #86

Rule #3: Keep people far from Spectrum and Adventist Today!!!


(George Tichy) #87

I support your suggestion.
Unless the GC can come up with ONE, at least one reason why it’s existence is beneficial to any segment of the Church. It seems that the GC is beneficial only to ITSELF!!!


(George Tichy) #88

People who thirst power & control, especially those who have the bugs of discrimination flowing in their bloodstream, will not cease & desist that easily from looking for a way to be “superior” to women. They have an immaturity component in their personality structure that makes them pursue their evil goal no matter what!


(Hymers Wilson) #89

Infantile is an appropriate word. There are all kinds of powers trying to subvert God’s intentions. It’s clear enough to me that the symbols of Revelation describe two sets of powers and two only. Those for God and His principle and those against God and His principles. Which means even an Adventist could fall into either category depending on whose principles he or she follows.


(Steve Mga) #90

Harry –
1798 – Wounded ONLY. when the French imprisoned that particular Pope.
Restored officially when Mussolini gave the Papal States back to the Pope in
EXCHANGE for the Pope encouraging the people – Catholics – to follow him.
The Pope who moved back in was a very morally weak person. Was also on
“good” terms with Hitler.

Another way to think about Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, the Dragon with
multiple heads and horns, the beast with 2 horns is EMPIRE. How EMPIRES act.
Instead of thinking of church as a “beast” consider that it chooses to bring in elements
of “EMPIRE” as to how it does business, and speaks.


(Carolyn Wesner) #91

I went ahead and read this Newsletter, which reflects the OPINIONS of the Newsletter Writing Committee. Jesus said to go and baptize - I’m pretty sure he is the greater authority, and I have no problem baptizing anybody who says “here is water…” as did the Ethiopian.


(Carolyn Wesner) #92

Or, we could consider Revelation 18 and entertain the idea that Babylon is Capitalism. Jesus said a lot more about the love of money than going to church on alternative days…


(George Tichy) #93

Spending time on guessing if the book of Revelation has any clues about the GC’s behavior is a failed proposition, a mere waste of time. Any attempt to mystify the GC’s behavior with some obscure biblical texts is impractical,fake, and even irreverent.

Maybe a distraction from the real issue, which is the GC’s people’s actions and behavior per se? :thinking:


#94

Over simplification, false comparison and specious to use this kind of example.

It is illogical to suggest that merely saving face will solve the root cause of the issue at hand.


#95

Indeed George, such a search is fruitless and will not address the root cause.

I would submit that it is hubris, the faith that many hold that the SDA church has all of the answers already and that EGW writings are for interpreting all scripture and hold answers to all life’s issues.

As you say the GC’s actions and behavior speak volumes as to their thinking. As a result of this level of thinking we are seeing the arrogant dismissal of any who disagree with their ideas.


(George Tichy) #96

David,
Another serious issue is the disconnect between their " thought ideas" (on paper and voice) and the "action ideas (what they really do).

This document is completely baloney. It’s a lest minute attempt to save face and to present to their base (and to other “fools” around) a far-from-reality document in the hope that people will be obfuscated by the impression that they are sincerely “seeking the will of the Lord.”

Just wait for what their real actions will be during the AC meetings. There will be a lot of “action” behind those beards!!! … :roll_eyes:


(Robert Lindbeck) #97

The document appears to serve two purposes.

  1. It certainly is meant to say “We are not the trouble makes. We are trying to get unity”
  2. The second function, as a result of the first, is to encourage the rank and file membership to demand strong action for non-compliance. In the process legitimising the 5 Committees because the people demand action.

All of this means that those who vote against the process risk being labelled as “collaborators” in non-compliance.

Whilst the document is dodgy at best, and easily seen as such by anyone following the discussion closely, for the casul observer of the official media it very much solidifies the official position as true and correct.

Attendees at AC2018 may find themselves in a no win situation.


(George Tichy) #98

I wonder if the voting will be by secret ballot. If so, it may well be voted down. If not, it will have 100% approval - due to the reasons you just pointed out.


(Steve Mga) #99

George –
You KNOW they will ask for a “show of hands”. That is a given.
“Show of hands” cannot be physically counted by 2 or 3 people
and verified by Auditors.
Paper ballots would have a numbering system, and if any “lost”
would be noticed immediately.


(George Tichy) #100

Steve,
No wonder those people from the GC never participate here. Just imagine how many embarrassing questions they would face! I bet they would not like the Y/N style of questioning… :wink:


#101

Indeed, more than anything else leaders like this fear honest questions and dialog.