General Conference Votes to Exclude Weapons Manufacturers from Its Investment Portfolio

I find it strange that there could a policy about not investing in cafeine yet ignore the armaments industry.

Are we aware of the huge injustice and suffering produced by armed conflicts that have nothing to do with protecting law and order?

Jesus’ call is quite radical and I’d rather lose money than invest it in armament.



Sure, it is still possible for one here and another there such as yourself perhaps; but I was more concerned about the cumulative effect in the society over many generations, the bigger picture. The effects of neglect are imperceptible at first because of its deceptive nature but it bears devastating fruit.

There is no greater example of such than in the sudden fall of media giants Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Bill O’Reilley and Matt Lauer. Drifting away from their families, they indulged themselves and their victims kept mum; until one day, their world came crashing down.

"… know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be:

  1. lovers of themselves,
  2. lovers of money,
  3. boasters,
  4. proud,
  5. blasphemers,
  6. disobedient to parents,
  7. unthankful,
  8. unholy,
  9. unloving,
  10. unforgiving,
  11. slanderers,
  12. without self-control,
  13. brutal,
  14. despisers of good,
  15. traitors,
  16. headstrong,
  17. haughty,
  18. lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
  19. having a form of godliness but denying its power."

2 Tim. 3:1-5

How does a society fall away so spectacularly at its end?


Was there any time in history when there were no people with those negative attributes?


Adam and Eve.
We are told that Eve was Deceived.
Adam on the other hand, IMITATED Eve. He was NOT deceived.
And we have had IMITATION of behaviors ever since.
Imitation of behaviors of those around us either consciously, and much of the time
have been unconsciously imitating the behaviors of others.
the human race has been doing that ever since.

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It is like the ocean. Its waves are gentle until the wind picks up and you quickly find yourself in the midst of it, being violently pitched about in dreadful darkness, in a terrifying storm with waves reaching stories high.


If people think that somehow this statement and the list that follows is something new they’ve not been a good student of history, recent or ancient. It’s not worse. The only thing different about it today is that people are finally no longer willing to put up with it silently. They are starting to really speak up and point out the falsehoods and the evil that has been a part of society and a part of the church for generations dating from antiquity.


James, with all due respect…this has been going on for millennia (the Bill Cosbys, etc). I am not sure why you think that this is a new phenomena overall. However, the “Last Days” are not known to us exactly any more than why Adventism has lasted for at least six generations and counting.


Are you insinuating that working men and women and pastors–both men and women–neglect their children’s bedtime stories and are focused on money? This is a stereotypical reactive assumption. It may be true for some, but for many who must work and have a career to provide for their children and their health insurance, there is no choice. And there must be much giving by both parents or a single parent. I, too, know them–the many who would never miss a night of reading or ever “nonverbally” communicate money is most important.

Yes, selfishness is everywhere. But so is unselfishness. You can’t see into their hearts, either.



The point was not that such things never happened before; but that those men, having neglected their familial obligations and the respect of women, were initially deceived by their power – that they could get away with anything – and so fell from grace in spectacular fashion because women were prepared to finally speak up.

NEGLECT of others, like pride in oneself, invariably precedes a fall.

And so, in my amicable discussion with @cincerity, I was suggesting to her that neglect of the next generation by busy parents was going to result in a final generation that “curses its father and does not bless its mother.Prov. 30:11-14 NKJV

Paul’s list to Timothy is not THE exhaustive list of character traits defining the last days as if such traits were not evident in every generation. The list was never meant for you to see, for example, “haughtiness” in a member of the congregation and go running around like Chicken Little shouting, “The sky is falling! The end times are upon us! James Peterson is haughty!”

Far from that. It is rather a list that shows cumulative effect, the sum total of which is the clear evidence and open demonstration of the scarcity of the Spirit of God in every facet of lfie, even in the Church generally.


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“I was suggesting to her that neglect of the next generation by busy parents was going to result in a final generation that “curses its father and does not bless its mother.” Prov. 30:11-14 NKJV”

I think that the issue is in what one considers to be “neglect”, but I can agree that true neglect never does enhance anything and causes harm.

Working mothers and fathers have been the norm for at least 2 generations and much longer than this in other countries. I still say that it is the quality of the time spent with children- not the quantity. Some do parenting well, some do it fair, and others do it poorly. I am not confident that any of us can say with certainty, if and when, this “final generation” will come because of working parents.

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No one can say, but it will happen.

Busy working parents are just one contributing factor; but it is the factor that contributes to the callous disregard for others: each such child feels nobody really cares and so is driven to fend in an equally heartless world where every one knows that without money, you’re as good as dead.

You don’t have a garden, you can’t build a shack, you’re prevented from digging your own well, and everyone else is too busy to see that your sole is blistered and you’re shivering in the cold. You have too choices: endure or fight.


If you look at Adventist doctrine I think you’ll find that, just as in the downfall of Judaism and Jerusalem of old and it’s eventual destruction, “the Church generally” will be the driving force behind the evil that caused God to intervene. Too often we look at those evil non-christians as the cause but it’s not. It’s the apostate church.


You’re quite correct.

But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces.” Luke 11:42-43

The desire for power and the strife over equality blind people to their despicable display of authority when it is granted. God would have us go into ministry immediately now: to minister to the broken-hearted, to the lost and dying, to the helpless, to the children of a new generation.


James, I don’t dwell upon whether or not I am in the “final generation” because, of a certainty, many generations of my family thought they were it and have died.

I disagree that all working parents teach “callous regard” any more than all of them teach “love and patience”…it is a mixed bag.

Yes, interestingly, the pharisees, the church leaders of the day, the one true church leaders, the “final generation” before the Messiah, had it wrong. Dead wrong.

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When will the incorrect title be changed? GC has NOT voted to completely exclude weapons manufacturers from its investment portfolio. Please read the official statement carefully and note what they did say and what they did not say.


James, it is always more efficient (and honest) to state your real position and intentions early so we all don’t waste our time in “amiable” conversations. :slight_smile:

Besides you can always go back to the sites where there are others who will fully agree with your views. :wink:


Ma’am, I assure you that my intentions were honourable from the very first time. If you would only scroll up, you would see how I began; and it was, inter alia:

I have tagged your comment in which you were insulting to both John and I…the mod will deal with how “honorable” you have been.


Don’t you think you are trespassing the fence of respect and common sense with that comment?