Genesis 1:16 and the Age of the Universe

I wonder if you could please provide Biblical support for all that you (and EGW) stated on this issue. It would be marvelous having the Bible confirming those ideas.

Dene, this sounds really bad. Instead of answering Steve’s @niteguy2 concerns you write that? This is a cheap tactic within the context of a serious religious conversation. If you hold EGW above the Bible, it’s your business and nobody has belittled you for that. Why are you doing it to someone who holds the Bible as superior to any other writings?

As you said, “please consider.”


spoken by a literal 6d6m interpretater. Condescending much?

Minimizing a known problem, mixing in an unspecified ‘other petty complaints’ is illogical-and does nothing for the validity of what you propose here.
If the esteemed estate of the venerable ellen deemed fit to keep under lock and key various things evincing problems, why would they so do for what you claim are merely false “attempts to make her a plagiarist”?

Sort of like the kid, with cookie crumbs on his lips and his hand in the jar offering “i didnt steal a crumb” even before asked “what are you doing?”

Your opinions are fine-and you holding them tightly, equally fine, but denigrating others who do not agree with your perspective is antithetical to christianity. Not that it doesn’t get done all the time…


I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, but you seem to be a person who enjoys and values studying… The plagiarism issue is not at the level of “other petty complaints.” Studying it in depth will show that EGW did plagiarize significant portions of her writings. Probably not the “Camden Vision” (Shut Door), because that was a crazy idea that nobody else would dare to come up with - especially saying that it was given in a vision from God…

EGW’s plagiarism is not a mere “complaint.” It’s a proven fact. The only reason to deny it would be total ignorance of the facts due to failing in examining the issue properly and thoroughly. Intellectual honesty on this issue is a must!


One of the problems we have with Genesis 1:1,2 is that
it is Not a Scientific statement.
Were there organisms in the water? We know that some
types of “Rocks” were formed from organisms.
Other types of rocks formed in other ways. And these
rocks are part of the crust of the earth.
God has NOT provided us any answers to questions we
have about the construction of the earth and how it has
progressed from the time it was put into existence with a
water covering. He has NOT told us When He lit the fires
in the center of the earth so we could have volcanos and
lots of minerals in liquid form come to the surface of our
The movements of the Tectonic Plates are still an
unsolved mystery as to WHEN they happened as they
seem to have at some time isolated certain animals
and plants. Rock in NE Canada are the SAME as rocks
on Western Ireland. Appear to have been attached to
each other sometime in Time. A lot of unanswerable
questions the Bible knows nothing about.
We have to be careful NOT to go from a type of “poetry”
to a Scientific Text Book given to us by God in those 1st
2 chapters.
God has allowed us Humans the FUN of exploring His
creation. On Earth, the Moon, the Sun, our Solar System,
and peering in wonder at other creation estimated to be
there for 13.6 or .7 years. And wonder at those marvels.
Some say there are Still New Star forms being created.
He has allowed us to JOIN Him in creating. He is allowing
us to have “better living through chemistry”. [Although at
times we humans use it for destructive purposes since the
time when we changed reaping sickles and sythes into
swords and spears. Nitroglycerine into bombs, Atomic
energy uses into Atomic Bombs, not to mention fire arms.]
God created the radio waves for radio, TV, cell phones. So many
things He had already created for our use, and probably much more
that we haven’t discovered as yet.
Yes, those words “In the Beginning” tell us nothing of what
went into Creation and continuing Creation.


It seems to me that the plagiarism issue is proven to those minds who don’t like EGW for some reason. To me it seems like when Daniel’s enemies could not find anything wrong with Daniel they made up one.

Anyway I have just presented the simple story that the Bible and EGW give. If you are not happy with that that is your choice.

Well, well, its George! I have doubts about your definition of intellectual honesty? Bye!

I am not surprised that you are just saying “Bye,” instead of actually deal with the real issue. It’s obvious why though… :wink:

I suspect, mr sensi, grasshopper @Dene learned too well your lesson.

This is a common tactic in this milieu.

Ever read “Dr Tar and Professor Feather”?

Age of the universe (again) Latest measurement by verifiable observation -13.71 billion yrs
If that number seems to big then, your god is too small.
Age of the earth 4.8 billion yrs
Age of humanity (Adam - Eve) 50 - 100 thousand yrs notice thousand not million ie relatively small compared to billion
When the bible is translated from the hebrew into english you have to be aware of the limited vocabulary of the hebrew For instance, the hebrew uses the word “yom” translated “day” in english. There is no concise word to convey a part of a day , a 24 hr period., a period of time which could convey a long but precise era of time. So when you read Genesis and read ‘yom’ (day) do you automatically translate that to mean a 24 hr when the hebrew would allow a long but definite period of time In that case “era” might be a better translation -a more accurate one given the context So that would mean the first day of creation week would be better translated to mean about 10 billion yrs which is what modern science tells us.
As for Gen 1:16 the appearance of the sun and moon on “day” 3 of creation week is better understood as became visible in that “era”. Until the 3rd day they would not be visible to the observer on the surface of planet earth because of the dense atmosphere blocking the view of the heavens of those 2 objects and stars Remember in Gen 1 the observation is from God creating the universe from outside of the universe Note - the bible and the bible alone of all religious books teaches that God creates from outside of His creation Then in Gen 1:2 the observation is made from the surface the earth and God’s Spirit " was hovering over the waters" So it is crucial to see where these observations were made. If you were on the surface of this formless and empty planet and looked up what would you be able to see -Nothing ! That doesn’t mean that nothing was happening Our universe was taking shape as God spoke it into existence As an observer on the surface of planet earth due to the atmosphere you just could not see it
Just this small but key reading of the text makes all the difference in understanding what’s going on in Genesis I don’t expect anyone to readily agree with this short blurb but I will tell you this, it changed my confidence in the bible’s authority and seeing how science verifies many things written in its pages The bible and science are complimentary After all they have the same author



If we can get money out of it (conscience aside), we can also do what EGW did. We can make our own theories. For example, I will make an assumption that the “dome” in Gen.1:6-7 was literal, the long lives of the antediluvian people can be attributed to that dome, and that the removal of that dome contributed to the great flood. The planet could have looked somewhat like thisearth dome The water above the firmament acted as a shield against harmful cosmic radiation and the photon from the sun cannot mix with the nitrogen below the firmament, therefore there was no carbon-14 before the flood. The temperature of the earth at any point was constant and there was no ice in the antarctic because the water above the firmament regulated the heat. Night time during those days were not as dark as we experience now because of the fiber optic effect of the water. Men,animals, and the vegetation were unimaginably healthier than us because of the shield. Antediluvian people have different technology; they have vehicles on land, air, and water but used different fuel because there was no fossil fuel yet ( they were part of the fossil fuels now). They knew how to navigate. The Piri Reis map might have been part of an antediluvian world map (carried by Noah or one of his passengers) and was only redrawn through the generations. Men and dinosaurs co-existed (as evidenced by some ancient drawings). The great flood was no ordinary flood (not only because of volume) because the water above the firmament which was poured down on earth carried harmful radioactive elements and God hid these under the earth’s surface (so God created the tectonic plates). Volcanoes formed after these tectonic plates. The ancient structures, i.e., ankor wat, pyramids, etc. were either remnants of the people before the flood or were made thru the supervision of the sons and grandsons of Noah (they have long lives also and might have acted as kings of different cultures that sprang up). Shem:600, Arphaxad:438, in fact Noah was still around when Abram(Abraham) was about 60.

How do you keep the dome from crashing into the earth? Why doesn’t the water above the dome evaporate into space? How thick is the water above the dome?

I don’t think this will work. The moon, which causes the tides, would pull on the dome and cause it to crash into the earth.


a firmament was created. the moon might have deformed the spherical shape a bit. this is just a theory anyway.and its hard to accept because we are used to seeing ordinary phenomenon. many things are impossible in the bible. eternal life is only one of them.

To be a scientific theory, it needs to work with already known factors like lunar gravity and what keeps small drifts in position from cascading and crashing into the earth. That makes this a non-scientific theory.

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In what science book have you ever read water evaporating into space? :wink:

This model has been abandoned by YEC proponents a while ago, since it simply doesn’t align with physics and conditions for life in general. First of all, it would trap the heat that radiates into space… and make the Earth really hot. Secondly, all of that water coming down… would boil everything due to the kinetic energy it would release. Imagine dropping an iron ball onto a concrete from a orbital height. It will heat up some via air friction, and the impact would also release-transfer some heat. It’s not that different with water. It would make a global fish stew, and it would sterilize any microbes necessary for vegetation.

The literal reading of the flood narrative is already problematic-enough without adding water canopy hypothesis into the mix.


So you think that the atmosphere (air) wouldn’t be able to keep the water from falling through it? :roll_eyes:

You mentioned evaporation. Well, there is always the possibility of a counter-raining, or reversed raining, in which the rain would fall from the atmosphere UP, to replenish the water outside. Now it rains down, but maybe at that time it rained UP. :innocent: Oh… those mysteries in Nature. We never know… :wink:

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