German Pastor Explains Why He Turned in his Credentials

[GeorgeTichy]

FINALLY!!!

Finally we can see one case where talking has been followed by walking.

Because so far I have heard many administrators “supporting WO,” and “praying for the women in our Church,” etc., but NONE* actually took any action to execute what they apparently believe in. Lots of talking the talk (and even bragging), but no walking the walk! Which for me stinks like hypocrisy.

Those who de facto support WO and want to eliminate discrimination of women in our Church don’t have to talk about their “support” anymore. Enough of those statements. Show backbone and go to action. Then tell us about it AFTER you did it! Otherwise, please don’t waste our precious time with mere worthless talking.

I really APPLAUD Pastor Brass. This is it, this is what people of character do!

Regarding Dr. Cupino’s @elmer_cupino comment,

our own Spectrum prophets-in-residence @GeorgeTichy and @cincerity to declare soon that

…well, I don’t know what the “junior prophet” @cincerity (;)) has to say, but on my side the “Keets” are really quiet now. It seems they are kind of cynical for the same reasons that I don’t want to hear any more words of “support of WO” anymore. Action brothers, action! We don’t need more beautiful statements, we need better solutions urgently!!!

*I am referring to the time after the “GCGate” in San Antonio.
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Please give me book, chapter and verse where God gives this information???

Tom, apparently there are many people involved in this “hearing business.” Please note that he is saying "God has informed us."
I hope he tells you where did he get his information from…
(Good luckl!!!)

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@Tongkam is in “rebellion,”

This is becoming interesting. The Europeans starting to take action, and some Americans becoming bothered by their leadership. Fabulous days ahead.

As Kevin Paulson @kevindpaulson would say, “Stay tuned”…

[veitch57 (Peter Veitch)]

standing up for equality of women ? excellent, next for LBGTI people ( i mean that in a good way ).

[sam (Sam Geli)]

Pastor Stephan G. Brass said:
“In contrast, I find equality when it comes to spiritual matters for both male and female.”
“With my move I wanted to keep the discussion alive. I also want equality in pastoral ministry. We should seek a solution within the Adventist setup that enables equality and does not discriminate against woman pastors.”

Gender equality means that women and men enjoy the same status and have equal opportunity to realize their full human rights and potential to contribute to spiritual, religious leadership, national, political, economic, social and cultural development, and to benefit from the results. Gender equality in our church goes further than just ordaining women.

Gender equity means being fair to women and men. Equity leads to equality.

Achieving gender equality requires the recognition that every policy, program and project of our church affects women and men differently. Women and men have different perspectives, needs, interests, roles and resources-and those differences may also be reinforced by class, race, caste, ethnicity or age. Policies, programs and projects in the Seventh-day Adventist Church must address the differences in experiences and situations between and among women and men.

Achieving gender equality does not mean that women become the same as men. Equality means that one’s rights or opportunities do not depend on being male or female.

[ajshep (Allen Shepherd)]

In contrast, I find equality when it comes to spiritual matters for both male and female. And since the New Testament endorses a kingly priesthood of all believers, the distinction we experience is a merely cultural one. I will respect those cultural practices and their underlying understanding.

This is contrast to some here who do not respect the cultural difference, but rather see it as a moral issue. Again, if it is moral, then those who reject Wo are immoral.

I don’t believe that we will solve this question by democratic procedures.

So, if we are not able to “solve” this democratically, how shall we then do it? fiat? presidential pronouncement? disunion?

I am still waiting to hear a better way to do this than the way this was done at SA. You supporters have yet to suggest a way to get WO done. Ah, yes, I suppose you can just ignore the vote and ordain regardless. But don’t you think that is the path to chaos? Others, with less “insight” might go in another direction, like the folk in Kenya regarding gays. Or maybe everyone will withhold tithe for their own pet idea.

I see this “rebellion” as a real threat to unity, and coherence. I am sad the rest of youse don’t see it.

[GeorgeTichy]

Again, if it is moral, then those who reject Wo are immoral.

I do not say that those who reject WO are immoral people.

But I have no doubt that discriminating against women
is indeed an immoral act, an immoral practice.
Christians who discriminate against women have no business in criticizing other religions (e.g. Islam) who also discriminate against their women, though maybe in a different way.

Discrimination against women is an evil act, no matter who is the perpetrator.

[serimukajava (ronin)]

Bravo, Pastor Brass…Bravo! The Adventist Church needs more of those like you who sees the moral and ethical implications of their decisions. Discrimination against women needs to stop in the Adventist church.

   A word with seven syllables: compartmentalization sounds impressive, but what does it mean? I consulted two meanings in two dictionaries. The first dictionary definition wrote, "the act of distributing things into classes or categories of the same type." Our Spectrum in resident psychologist, may not think this one has to do with psychology? 
    The second meaning second dictionary has with definition written "a mild state, of dissociation." Of course, to understand this definition, one must know that dissociation is a psychological process…right?  By which one splits two sets of perceptions or emotions into two separate inner worlds so that one does not affect the other. 
     Do we practice compartmentalization?  On a big scale on Women Ordination is it a malignant state of gender dissociation troubling us and simply can’t turn it off the agony of daughters consumed by that fire too much to bear? 
    And it was not the behavior of Moses…(Exodus 2:11). He went out to his people, and look at their burdens, He gave his eyes and his heart [in order] to be troubled about them. Did he not avoid the scene of father, mother, son and daughter suffering, he made sure that he beheld it ("his eyes"), and that it affected him emotionally ("his heart").

Moses did not “look away” from upsetting scenes, rather than carefully looking “at them” pulling in collection of ethical discourses.
Moses was not content simply to hear about the suffering of his people while he sat comfortably in the palace. Rather he “went out” to see for himself. Moses wanted to witness the suffering of his people personally. Moses knew the secret of the power of direct sensory perception. Moses wanted to have the burdens of slavery impressed upon his mind’s eye. Moses used his eyes to inspire his heart to motivate his actions. Vision, feeling, and behavior: the three essential components of the truly ethical personality.
The lesson for all of us here is that to be a truly ethical person, one must invest in the effort of becoming familiar with the plight of other. One must avoid the temptation of “looking away”. From a psychological perspective, compartmentalization might be a healthy defense mechanism, necessary to avoid being flooded by images of evil. From an ethical perspective, on the other hand, compartmentalization is a seven-syllable word that, in simple terms, means avoidance of one’s responsibilities to another.
To know what hurts, leaders open the eyes and heart to see and feel the pain. It is not the behavior of true leaders not to know vision, feeling, and behavior: the three essential components of the truly ethical personality. It is not the behavior of true leaders afford to double-cross.
God blessing, Pastor Bras, you have the Eyes and Heart of Moses!

[simon]

does anyone read the Sabbath school lessons
lesson 10 THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM
EZEKIEL 8

lack of faith is the the question
people like to cling onto culture of the world which are basically deities and deus - goddess of various sorts
why did Jesus pick 12 men when setting up the church ?
why didn’t he pick 1 women ?
he represented god his father the alpha and omega why no contingency plan for future cultures ?

people in our church who subscribe to this
also reject the study lessons
there off in there own groups doing own studies with ‘new light’

[GeorgeTichy]

Any comment or question thrown here on the OneGate site (aka Spectrum Website) is waste of time - because a true discussing cannot take place due to the site’s rules. If you are really interested in a good discussion of the issue, you should go to the LOUNGE, where discussions are taking place and the issues are being considered more in depth and broadly.

@elmer_cupino @ageis711Oxyain and all.