God, Genocide and Hospitality


(Patrick Travis) #21

Still kinda vague to me. I am more a specifics person in honest communication.


(Kim Green) #22

It’s a general statement that I knew that Elmer would understand. What you are not understanding is the intent of why I am saying what I am. Are you interested in this?


(Patrick Travis) #23

Well, I appreciate in knowing where people are coming from. Not simply for confrontation. I like to think I am fairly straight forward. I am not like an onion that needs to be peeled to get to what I mean or who I am.
What I am is ok. I don’t need to make it obscure. I think a counseling degree should make that clear. After all, in counseling we seek to know the motivations for where one is. Correct? That is what I understood in my counseling courses at RTS.


(Kim Green) #24

It helps to know where people are coming from but not everyone seems to have a keen interest in this…which is why I asked. :smiley:


(Patrick Travis) #25

But isn’t that the basis of counseling and communication?


(Kim Green) #26

Yes, but many aren’t always interested. On this forum some only come to do “talking points”.


(Patrick Travis) #27

Fair enough…I choose to listen, evaluate and offer opinions or possibilities.
Regards,
My bride calls me. :slight_smile:


(Kim Green) #28

Then you must go…:wink:


(Terrance Dunder) #29

I am totally shocked that nobody has introduced the Biblical stories of mass genocide attributed to god. One has to wonder why people just ignore the obvious contradictions that the god of the old testament presents relative to the Christology that the God of the New Testament presents. It is no wonder that people are turned off by organized religion when it reverts to the OT thinking of exclusion. For me the whole concept of exclusivity is contrary to the NT idea that God came to reconcile the whole world.


(George Tichy) #30

Excellent point!
I wonder what changed God’s mind from the OT to the NT.

I also wonder if God approves the Israeli’s terrorist tactics used by that Nation in order to conquer the land that they said belonged to them. I mean, the story of killings is horrific since the late 40’s, and still continues to date.


(Terrance Dunder) #31

Clearly the scripture is written with the cultural influences of the time. Which really begs the question, what will the God coming in the clouds be? In all the scripture i believe one can see 3 characteristics of a God we can easily be reconciled to: universal unconditional love, freedom of individuals choice and unmerited unconditional grace and acceptance. Everything then and now which violates these great character traits is a reflection of our cultural conditioning and leads to situations that are irreconcilable.


(Terrance Dunder) #32

And the only answer to your question is an emphatic NO


(Patrick Travis) #33

So should Israeli’s simply stand by and be shot at and bombed by those who dont feel they have a right to exist?:
Understanding civil responsibilities and spiritual understandings are part of why there needs to be separation of church and state.
In the future Christ will come forth in battle. Rev.19 as King when the time of repentance and forgiveness is over. He comes in stedfast love to redeem His own and destroy the wicked.


(George Tichy) #34

A few weeks ago I made a mistake on amazon.com and with one click i bought a book by mistake. $12.99, more expensive than I usually pay for kindle editions. Well, I started reading it anyway, and could not stop for 3 days! One of the best books I’ve ever read.

It though me a lot about the beginning of the State of Israel. It was not their land, but by using guerrilla methods they forced themselves in. Horrible story of killing others. The book is fascinating. Here it is:

A sample is available online. The books has over 700 pages. Fascinating reading.

It’s a very educational book. And, after learning all that, I understand still less why the US (we) gives Israel $1bi every week (ca $50 a year). Do they pay tithe???..


(ROBIN VANDERMOLEN) #35

Terrence Dunder

You make a pertinent and provocative point that the subject of genocide in the modern era should address the abysmal atrocities in the OLD TESTAMENT — the God ordained massacres of Israel’s neighboring tribes.

Babies, Infants, toddlers, teenagers, and grandparents were all butchered in a blood bath, but even the innocent herds of animals belonging to those tribes, were also slaughtered. The commandment THOU SHALT NOT KILL was blatantly ignored in the killing fields of Palestine. .

EGW speaks of the “universe “ — onlookers from other “ unfallen worlds “ plus the “ good Angels “

These alleged jurors in the “ Great Comtroversy “ are amazingly silent and compliant in the light of the worst genocide in the history of the planet — the NAZI HOLOCAUST.

They should be clamoring to God to end the carnage, by fast forwarding the Second Coming.

But we hear nothing from them, because those ancient God ordained killing fields , were in my view meant to inure / accustom / habituate the “ universe “ to all future atrocities.

Having watched horrendous, horrific,GOD ORDAINED holocausts in the past our “ universe “ is ho hum, humdrum and hackneyed, in response to any future genocides.

If the OT were to be filmed by Hollywood in all its gory gruesome grim ghastliness, the movies would be both X rated and R rated!


(Patrick Travis) #36

ON Topic, different message. What is happening in HK right now is very dangerous to HK citizens and potentially any visitor. China has proposed law that over rides the 1997 agreement and common law that HK laws would exist till 2047.
China is moving to have law that will extradite to the mainland anyone “accused of a crime” to the mainland for trial. Any dissenter of Beijing could be accused of public unrest…and off to the mainland for a trial! It doesn’t take a genius to see this is problematic. The people of HK fled Mao in the communist revolution. The HK Chinese people have not forgotten their history!
Great Britain should play “the man” and stand up for HK on the international stage!


(Terrance Dunder) #37

The only idea that makes sense to me is that satan influenced people to give attribution to God when in fact the situations and atrocities were initiated by either satan himself or were simply natural events. In any case we have the testimony of Christ rebutting the beliefs of his day that God does evil. Hope looks for a better state. Without that hope what would we base faith on. Cynics and others say hope is in vain. I choose to believe that God is better than our best hopes


(Terrance Dunder) #38

I would argue that Christ comes back again for the same reason as when he came the last time, to show us the father and to reconcile us to the real love, freedom and grace that always has been given freely without preconditions. Our misrepresentations of these truths with legalism, authoritarianism and exclusivity dissuade many.


(Patrick Travis) #39

There are preconditions. One, when called of the HS to accept Christ one is to respond. Confession/repentance of sin is a condition of taking the gift and solution already provided in Christ.
Unconditional love is never used in scripture, however stedfast love, hesed, is and He wont forsake His own.
God is righteous in all that He does. He/Christ is righteous in war and abundant in mercy. This is what we will one day see and fully understand.


(Terrance Dunder) #40

Believe what ever you want but remember Gods people at the end are those who did not know him and those who did everything right did not recognize the True God. Many who claim to know God do not realize that their perception is corrupted by their own beliefs. They have created a god in their own image.